A Hindu nation is projected as the worst possible scenario by the wrongly called ‘liberal’ media. Yet, the same media don’t react when America or most other western countries are referred to as Christian nations. Nor do they get agitated about the numerous Muslim nations; not even about those which still have harsh blasphemy laws. Why are these ok, and a Hindu nation is not ok? They don’t explain; they just insinuate that minorities (read Muslims and Christians) will suffer in a Hindu nation.
Maybe they came to this conclusion because minorities like Jews or Hindus suffer in certain Christian or Muslim nations though the media hardly criticizes those countries for it. However, even otherwise, this conclusion is wrong, as Hindus have a different mind-set. They are open towards other views, unlike ‘good’ Christians and Muslims who are told by their clergy that they need to make everyone believe what they believe, if necessary by deceit or force.
Hindus cannot be put into one single box. There are too many different ways to reach the goal of life. As it were, there are many minorities within Hinduism. But they all are based on the Vedic insight that everything, including our persons, is permeated by the same Divine Essence which is called by many names but is ONE. Our human consciousness (Atman) is one with the cosmic consciousness (Brahman) and to realize this, is the goal and fulfillment of life. “Satyam vada, Dharmam chara” the Veda exhorts – speak the truth and do what is right under the given circumstances. And find out who you really are: you are not a separate entity but in the depths of your being one with all.
From this follows that ‘good’ Hindus are those rare human beings whose Dharma makes them regard all others as brothers and sisters. Their Dharma makes them further respect nature and not harm intentionally any living being.
Hindus do not, unlike Christians and Muslims, divide humanity into those who are chosen by God and those who are eternally damned. Hindu children are not taught to look down on those who are not Hindus, unlike children of the dogmatic religions who are taught that their God does not love those others unless they join their ‘true’ religions.
Hindus are also comparatively kinder to animals. The great bulk of vegetarians worldwide are Hindus.
Hindus never fought crusades or jihads to establish their dharma in foreign lands. In fact, they didn’t need to, because they convinced most of Asia merely by solid arguments. Yet, for the past thousand years Hindus were at the receiving end of jihads and conversion campaigns and millions of Hindus were killed in cold blood because they were Hindus.
It has to be held in favour of Hindus that they held on to their tradition and did not succumb to the pressure and even violence brought on them to adopt the blind belief of the invaders that only one particular person needs to be followed. Instead, they continued trusting their sages who never asked for blind belief, but asked to verify their insights through experience.
So why do media worldwide get so worked up about ‘Hindu fundamentalists’ and a possible ‘Hindu nation’. What is wrong with the fundamentals? There is nothing wrong with the fundamentals. But there is one major difference: For Hindus, the Divinity is in all and all is in the Divinity, whereas for Christians and Muslims the Divinity is separate from his creation watching us from somewhere.
The concept of Divinity is also different. For Hindus the best description for the absolute truth is Sat-Chit-Ananda (it is true, aware and blissful). The many personal gods help the devotee to realize the Absolute. Christians and Muslims perceive Divinity in its highest form as a personal, superhuman entity who is jealous of other gods.
In all likelihood the Hindu view comes closer to truth. When the first translations of Vedic texts appeared in the west, the greatest minds in Europe were greatly impressed by Indian thought. It did spread among scientists, too, who used it to push the frontiers of science further. It is no coincidence that modern science discovered that all is one energy after Vedanta became known in the west. It is also no coincidence that the Church lost much of its power in Europe when some of India’s wisdom filtered down to the masses
Why then are the media worldwide so worried about a nation where the Hindu roots are fostered? Where Sanskrit is taught, which is the most perfect, dignified, powerful language on earth and which is useful even for NASA? Where yoga is practised in schools, which is an ideal means for all-round development and which, on a deeper level, helps to find fulfilment in live? Where Vedic philosophy is studied, which inspired the new scientific discoveries for example in nuclear physics? Where the amazing wisdom of Mahabharata and Ramayana becomes common knowledge, which is already taught in business seminars abroad? Where children chant “Loka samastha sukhino bhavantu” (let all be happy) instead of Humpey dumpey, which happens already in certain schools in the west?
Yet as soon as Hindus make suggestions for India to keep its Hindu character or, to gain back its Hindu character, as even after Independence, the youth was encouraged to abandon it, there is an outcry by the media that “Hindu fundamentalists” want to make India a Hindu nation and exclude religious minorities.
So why would Indians who rather recently converted to Islam or Christianity not be proud of the achievements of their ancestors? India was the cradle of civilization, a knowledge hub and the richest country on earth. It was known for its wisdom. Greeks, including Pythagoras, are said to have come to India for knowledge and today everybody knows his name, but not the name of the Indian mathematician (Baudhayana) who originally discovered the Pythagoras theorem.
Surely Christians and Muslims cannot have any objection that students chant “May all be happy” in Sanskrit, the language of their forefathers. If someone calls such teaching communal it is malicious. If someone objects to this teaching, should not he be shouted at by the media instead of those who want to revive their ancient culture? Is not he the one who tries to divide society and not those who say “Vasudhaiva kutumbakam” (all is one family) due to their philosophical outlook?
Hindus are the exemplary role model for ‘how not to exclude others’? Where else have religious minorities flourished and grown like in India? Is not the relative harmony in this amazing diversity in India generally admired abroad? Media persons need to look around in the world to realize this fact.
Why then are Hindus of all people accused of excluding others?
The reason may be this: India was the cradle of civilization and over most of the known history economically very powerful. Today’s great powers may fear that based on her ancient culture, India may rise again to the top.
“Imagine, India would become a Hindu nation!” the media and members of the Abrahamic religions shout infuriated. The problem, however, is that they don’t imagine it. If they only imagined what a Hindu nation looks like, they might start propagating Hindu nations all over the globe for harmony and peace in the world.
One day, when people have become tired of blindly believing strange things, and when nobody is threatened any longer with dire consequences if he stops believing in those strange things, the world may be grateful to Bharat Mata that she has conceived and preserved over millennia those eternal, precious insights for the benefit of humanity.
By Maria Wirth
PS: I thought the above article was clear, but since some comments argue that a Hindu nation is not secular, a few more points:
A Hindu nation has no blasphemy laws.
There is not one way but many different ways to connect with and worship the Divine. Yet truth naturally is One. It is ‘That What Is’. It is not a mental concept contained in a book.
Questioning the different paths is not forbidden, but encouraged.
In short, common sense and one’s own conscience are not suspended in favour of a doctrine that needs to be blindly believed.
It is no coincidence that secularism was ‘invented’ in the west to keep the influence of Christianity out from the state. When the term ‘secularism’ was introduced in the Indian constitution, right at that time there was the need to scrap the different personal laws based on religions. It was not done. So India is not secular in the original meaning of the term.
Hindu is basically a geographical term, as mentioned in the article.
It would be beneficial, if other nations copied the open-minded Hindu approach.
So the answer to the question posed in the title, would be:
Hindu nations (based on the eternal principles of the ancient Indian tradition) are ok and Christian and Muslim nations (based on fixed, unverifiable, must believe dogmas) are not.
Maria Wirth
205 Comments
No need for foreigners to influence Indian churnos. Their education and milieu makes them foreigners to their own culture.
Just be a Hindu, if you like and stop comparing Hinduism with other faiths. Don’t undermine Vasudeva kutumbakam. Or Brahma the unifying holy soul
Good morning Martha, beautiful article as I’ve thought about this issue since Sathya Sai Baba was accused in mid 1990s of many horrible things including pedophilia! Imagine, by our own Indian media. He responded saying, these people don’t investigate and are mere cut, copy & paste journalists. They merely borrow articles & ideas from the West and showcase them as their own. So true, as most Indians don’t have traditional Sanatana education. Instead they have either Urdu based or missionary style Convent education. Their mental make-up isn’t Hindu. They may be cultural Hindus & even pray in front of Hindu Gods & Goddesses – mostly the “Gimme, gimme, gimme” type of prayers. Sometimes even begging for favours. This doesn’t translate in character. So they vent it out in their write ups. We can draw comfort that Sanatana Dharma is so great & vast, that even these type of journalists can eat & stay alive making careers. Some even get considered intellectuals! Thanks.
Prakash Ranganath
i am an insider of Christianity, one of the two dogmatic expansionist religions. don’t i have the right to point out what is wrong with it and why we suffered?
Dear Prakash Ranganath. Drawing a line from Maria’s topic to the Satya Sai Baba issue is tricky and kind of ironic.This is because not only the Indian media accused him but Maria, too. She has spent 7 years inside Sai Babas ashram after wich she was thoroughtly dissenchanted. In fact, in her book launched in 2006 she almost accuses the guru of pedophilia and hinted even at murder.
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Beautiful article. So powerful. I wish this word spreads wider and more people realize and move towards the real truth. I haven’t practiced any other religions but Hinduism but I do believe in the beautiful wisdom of great Bible and Quran verses as well , Maria. All religions have wisdom at their root , but what keeps Hinduism so alive and fresh is that it gives one the ability to experience , seek and discover for oneself. It can be as complex as Creation itself if one wants to go deep into it’s nuances or as simple as knowing we are all one. So many saints continue to exist today due to the belief that Divinity is ever present , omnipresent and all one has to do is overcome the ilusion of exclusion and merge with the infinite. And they are always charting their own unique path. It’s a religion of so much hope, that gives us the laws of life like karma, and Dharma and that we are ultimately actors, but the script is for us to influence by right action and reflection. I don’t condemn any other religion, for each leads to the same Beautiful God , but I do find ectasy in the beauty and complexities of Hinduism.
Hi, Mariechen. Although you have a very good argument pointing out that other countries call themself christian or muslim nations you missed a vital point. The difference is that India has for decades carefully nurtured its image as the most tolerate multi religious country on the planet. With this it made itself vulnerable to criticism. People who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones…..isn’t it?
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Great piece. Not so blind as one who refuses to see. That about sums up the media. The Indian media, controlled by external forces, are under greater delusion than the western media. But, what is being played out now in the west asia and the west is a repeat of the Crusades. The Hindus will be the spectators watching the others slugging it out.
“One day, when people have become tired of blindly believing strange things…..” Don’t hold your breath Maria that “one day” will never come.
“If there should be a conference among the most imaginative minds they will find that almost all institutions of learning in the world are only nurseries of prejudice, bigotry, tyranny and pedantry.”
Haven’t you noticed when mostly Western scholars (BBC the Bigquestion) sit down for a debate, they think they alone have all the answers and to them all Eastern scholars are merely dumb asses.
Dear Ms. Maria Wirth, Over the past hundreds of years, India has never propogated to be a Hindu Nation, None of the past kindoms have ever claimed to be a Hindu Nation. The Religion of the King was Religion of the folk. And now here Comes a German Scholar, who is telling us to recogonize ourselves to be part of a Hindu Nation. Please look at the German Christian history and the Splitting ot the church thru Luther. We neither Need anyone else to come and tell us if there are Christian or Muslim nations, but we certainly don’t that Label. Please don’t try to tell us find our own identity. Let Germans do that first. This debate could go on for ever and you will not be able to convert us to a Hindu Nation. We are proud to have our identity – the one as it is.
Maria, this article should be widely spread!! It is wonderful.
And Hindus should not lose hopes. We were told by Shri Krishna to do our part and leave the results to Him. He did not encourage us to give up!!
Why should she or anyone for that matter “only be a Hindu”? Dharma has to be defended. Because it is being attacked. If it is not defended, they may come one day when aggressive religions and secularists make us impossible to even be Hindus openly.
That is why we should never give up defending Dharma. If Hindus do not do, who will?
don’t think there won’t be a change. already it’s happening. Europe’s Christian have become very selective what they believe ever since they are not punished anymore for heresy. only those who get their livilihood from spreading those “truths” are sticking to the dogmas. same may happen with Muslims, too, when they are not afraid anymore. did you hear about this daughter of a Muslim Brotherhood man, who came to India to “find God away from religion”…
Very true…..hope time will make the people realise this
Let us not divert the attention to Sai Baba n concentrate on what she writes on Hinduism.
I find her observations very appealing.let us introspection.
This is the “with it” attitude that the British and the Cambridge, Columbia, Elphinstone, Presidency, St Stephen’s, Madras Christian and other wise brain washed stooges have propagated in India since 1921, and with greater intesnity since 1947 when they began to dismantle Indian education and did away with merit and integrity in all walks of life lest their thesis be disproven.
This is like Raoul Baba’s thesis on Saffron Terror to the US Ambassador that led to cases being fabricated and filed against “Hindoos” for acts of terror committed by the Indian National Congress’ associates from Pakistan.
A prophecy that self fulfills with a lot of help from the State.
Thank you! Oh Jambavan!! Let your ‘lion’s roar’ be heard. Let the true India arise, awake and work for its true agenda!! We are greatful to you.
Thank you for the article. Hope our leaders show the courage to declare Bharat as a HINDU RASHTRA.
Jai Hind..Jai Bharat Good article
This message is very beautifully expressing the truth . Hindutava is treating world as one family . Wishes well being as Vasudhaev Kutubham.Please speak about good that India does in this regard as today is earth day
Dear MW, Ignore people like this ghoshal,they do not have even 1% of perception that Honest souls like you carry.
Your interpretation of Vasudaika kutumba & Brahman are absolutely true.
Forgive ghosahl for his ignorance.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, India was Hindustan and no doubt Hindu nation since decades .. but political parties created religion
wall between Hindu and others. India believed in democracy and recent prime minister and chief minister elected by Indian citizen including Hindu Muslim and Christian
Too many arrogant sickulars will run you down!
This article is excellent – it points to the fact that Hindus unite to make the world a better place and in that better place, the existing parasital fiberal-chrislamic powerstructures will implode! Hence instinctively they hate- these are within India and outside as well!
There is no point reasoning with them – just in-your-face factoids-and-conclusions should do!
More power to you & ALL those connecting with the universality of Hinduness!
And more power to you in your efforts to enlighten your audience both Indian and otherwise in these matters!
Kudos
Hindus, the most persecuted in history. They should get justice soon!
Maria all your points are true. People should know, that you are not a German tourist who is making irresponsible statements, but in fact you have spent many years in India learning and living a spiritual life.You certainly qualify to be as Hindu as any so called born Hindu’s if that is what defines it and your commentary is always meaningful and most welcome.
I didn’t know this about her. I thought she was spiritually sound to be influenced by the very best as the very best in our land have concluded that Sathya Sai Baba is absolute divine. Many including myself still enjoy the experience of His divine presence. Feel sorry for her experience. Maybe next birth, as we’ve nowhere to go or choose to come except this very planet Earth. Thanks. I won’t offer anymore comments for her blogs.
brilliant article. every Indian should read it..
Dear Prakash. Sorry to say so but your reply is very immature and lacks any wisdom. Knowing nothing about Maria you judge her solemnly by my comments? Who is giving you the guaranty that I spoke the truth? Nobody! And all that based on the third and second hand informations you have about Satya Sai Baba. Maria, on the other hand, lived 7 years day by day at his ashram, in his presence. Means, she experienced everything FIRST HAND. IN the beginnig you sang her praise and now, only because she is not fitting into your narrow mindframe, you condemn her. Keep on sleeping!
Hinduism is the way to lead ones life. In fact if the geographical boundaries are removed any body of whatever faith he practices can still go by the broad name of Hindu. That is how inclusive it is. The wonderful place this world is would become more beautiful if only the people allow themselves to be judged by facts, logic of the wisdom from the ETERNAL VEDIC past on this side of the Oriental.
“The first commandment in Christianity and a very important issue in Islam is the claim that nobody must worship other gods except the ‘one true god’, which both religions claim is only with them.”
This is somewhat correct, even Krishna has said that it is not necessary to follow or worship other demigods, if you just follow Him, that is enough.
I wish Hindus take half the trouble you took to understand Sanatana Dharma and spread its goodness around! We should be grateful and at the same time ashamed that a German lady is going around doing what every Hindu should do but do not do! Keep up the good work!
Wonderful and factual analysis with eye opening clarity.
What is the identity that you are talking about?
Hindu is defined in negative terms: those who are NOT Christians, Muslims, Jews. As far as I know, Buddhists, Jains are subsumed under Hindu.
Now this means it is India’s original identity, and not the superimposed identity of the dogmatic, blind belief religions which made inroads into the Indian populace.
As soon as Christianity and Islam do not demand any longer that their flock identify first with their (transnational) religion, and consider “Hindus” damned to hell, there is no need for a religious connotation of the term Hindu any longer. All would be Indians (or Hindus, as it is the same root and both are geographical) with no solid brickwall-like borders between them. The border is erected by the dogmatic religions, not by the Indian ancient tradition.
Regards
Maria Wirth
Really happy to read this expose of STINKING minds finding fault about any thing “HINDU” where none exists – TRULY HINDUS are the most tolerant . THANKS
Dear MW, I am a Christian and my wife a Hindu and we have been living happily for the past 15 yrs. When we shifted to the capital city of India 10yrs ago, we had no problems or religious fear. We thought that India is a secular country. If it is so, why should we even try to make it a hindu nation. The media is making a lot of noise over this, I presume that it thinks of India as a secular and we still want to remain it that way. Any scriptures would talk about love and peace. Atleast,this is what i learnt in Church to love and respect other religions and even my wife learnt the same.this might be one reason thats keeping our bond stronger. You talk about Dharma,Atma, Brahman_ you are a learned scholar and I wouldn’t win a single line argument with you. But, I think all these virtues are in the scripture books only. We love animals,infact we love them more than a human being(cows over women). India must have been the cradle of civilisation and economically very strong,and we would love and be proud of our country to retain our lost glory. But,is it necessary that we need to be a Hindu nation to regain this? I don’t think so. Why don’t we learn from the crusades and jihads that imposing and suppressing religious beliefs brings only misery. Let us strive to reach the peak together and just stop bragging about being a hindu,muslim,christian etc or any religious sect. Why can’t we look at religions as a way to shape our lives so that we live in peace and harmony with everyone. And ofcourse, the media needs to shout louder than ever so that the whole world hears that we are a secular nation and we would love to be this way forever.
With respect. Thank you
Yes, I agree with you, religion should never be the foremost identity. and we should learn from crusades and jihads. But who should learn and who does not learn? It is NOT the Hindus.
You wrote: “what i learnt in Church to love and respect other religions and even my wife learnt the same.” Your wife surely learnt it (the “even” was unnecessary), but you luckily did not pay attention what the Christian clergy wants you to believe: the official doctrine is that there is no salvation outside of the Christian Church. It means if you were a “good” (means rather bad) Christian, you would have to convince your wife to get baptised, because if not, she will go to hell for ever.
Luckily the common man is not as foolish as the clergy and does not take this seriously. But should we not first point fingers at the dogmatic religions before questioning Hindus? If you live in India, you surely know that Indian secularism means that Hindus are discriminated against in their own country in several aspects.
if the dogmatic religons would not insist that their flock identifies with their religion foremost, there is no need to stress a Hindu identity either, all would just be humans… Hindus don’t erect the border. the dogmatic religons do. then who is divisive?
I wrote on Indian secularism here:
https://mariawirthblog.wordpress.com/2014/05/02/indian-secularism-is-not-secular/
Most of the Indian Media Houses are either sponsored by Anti-Hindu Brigades or by Communists. These Media Houses just don’t even understand the Scientific Principles on which the religion is based. There is a leading journalist who shot to fame in 1999 and then always arm wrestled through the corridors of power to reach a level to write for Washington Post or some US News Paper, this leading journalist has problems with a days’ fast by Married Hindu Females for the long life of their husbands…..ah and the same journo dare not speak about the month long fasting provisions in other religions.
It is strange that in some countries, during their holy month, you can’t dare to drink water in public….and in India, you can mock the regulations to even eat Beef and then do Beef Politics…..
It is also interesting to see the minorities crying foul when someone makes a statement against their religion, while if a Hindu is tortoured to death, there is no flutter……Well the latest being a Hindu making a tweet about waking up to Ajaan, and the media jumping on the occasion to call him Hindu hardliner…..interesting, yeah why????
Thanks a million Ma’am for speaking out frankly for the Hindu cause!
Fantastic, fantastic article…..
Whatever the world is learning today is because of the trusted wisdom/knowledge of Bharatmata…the only place where humanity exists.
The world had to come back to the living n thinking style of hinduism…
Dharma does not need to be defended or be protected, if you really know what it is, it can stand on its own because it is truth.
Sai Baba has nothing at all to do with divinity. He was a scoundrel who had taken advantage of millions in misleading them to believe he was God incarnated.
“NA TASYA PRATIMAA ASTI YASYA NAAM MAHAVIDYASHAH.” Yajur Ved 32:3
He the Supreme, of infinite glory, has no likeness, weight or measurement.
It may stand by its own, only in the sense that it refers to Eternal Truths, and those are always there disregarding who attunes with them or who does not. If other dogmatic religions advance, there will not be Sanatana Dharmis who could freely follow them. Because they will be prosecuted if not converted. Haven´t you seen the history of the dogmatic religions, and the results of “secular” policies, sir?
Who said that Dharma does not need to be protected? Or if you want to be more precise, then yes, Dharma does not need it, but WE need to protect it. Sri Krishna in the Bhagavad Gita encourages us to do it. And then what for is the Dharmo Rakshati Rakshitah?
Our respect as Dharmists for the others should not go to the extent of tolerating their disrespect. That would mean sheer stupidity and disregard for Dharma.
Hinduism is …to put it in a nutshell…a way of life..
..and is not a religion…as other faiths such as Christianity or Islam are ..
one can be a hindu..n still go to a church..or a mosque..the concept of divinity and the oneness of all…has been highlighted aprly by Maria Wirth..
Quite a comprehensive story and what’ more?? Maria has filtered the quintessential narure of hinduism as distinct from hindu fundamentalism…which shows up in the political scenario..
A really thought provoking account..
Hindus tolerate..being ridiculed by other minority communities …time and again..
it probably is this trait of high tolerance…that has made hinduism..so irrepresible…and…even lash out strongly where n when we can see the traits of fundamentalism..gaining strength..n power..
Dear Prakash Ranganath,
Be guided by reason and facts. Sai Baba was a fake man, a con man. He discredited Hinduism and strengthened these anti-India forces. Please do not defend everyone! Could Sai Baba produce a pumpkin instead of atma linga from his mouth asked Dr. Narasimhaiah, Nuclear Physicist, a dharmic Gandhian, and Vice Chancellor of Bangalore University? Google for the YouTube video.
http://www.outlookindia.com/website/story/baba-give-me-a-pumpkin/271521
What is the wisdom from Bible and Quran if we may ask? Bundle of contradictions. Maria has quoted a number of verses from Bible and Quran in other blogs.
Quran (3:56) – “As to those who disbelieve, I will punish them with a severe torment in this world and in the Hereafter, and they will have no helpers.”
Quran (3:151) – “We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve for what they have associated with Allah of which He had not sent down [any] authority. And their refuge will be the Fire, and wretched is the residence of the wrongdoers.”
Quran (5:33) – “Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment.”
Have you seen yogis speeches on his views on minorities? You will get your answers of why the media went berserk when you watch them.
[…] IT IS OK FOR CHRISTIAN AND MUSLIM NATION BUT NOT FOR A HINDU NATION Maria Wirth I sometimes wonder who influences whom: the Indian mainstream journalists the foreign […]
What a silly comment, that too from someone calling himself a professor. I found the article inspiring. On the one hand “professor” we say Hinduism is all encompassing, uniting and you “professor ji” say that she is a German outsider whose opinion is not required. wah bhai wah.
… and ignore timirghoshal.. the disturbed anti-unifier soul.
“Who said that Dharma does not need to be protected? Or if you want to be more precise, then yes, Dharma does not need it, but WE need to protect it.”
If it (Dharma) does not need it, why the need to protect it? It simply shows you (a hindu) don’t really know what dharma means.
KRINVANTO SWAYAM ARYAM- Make yourself noble
Only when the correct knowledge is put into practice (yoga) for the benefit of our protection from pain and misery it is called dharma, until then what you believe remains religion.
If you don’t know where to find this knowledge, let me know.
“Who said that Dharma does not need to be protected? Or if you want to be more precise, then yes, Dharma does not need it, but WE need to protect it.”
If it (Dharma) does not need it, why the need to protect it? It simply shows you (a hindu) don’t really know what dharma means.
KRINVANTO SWAYAM ARYAM- Make yourself noble
Only when the correct knowledge is put into practice (yoga) for the benefit of our protection from pain and misery it is called dharma, until then what you believe remains religion.
If you don’t know where to find this knowledge, let me know.
The need to protect it is for us, a duty, moreover. Dharma means many things, not only one, as you for sure know. As many other key concepts in Sanskrit, as you also know, is full of nuances. But this is not the point. We are not talking about concepts or ideas, but about the richness of Sanatana Dharma which is threatened by the advancement of several forces and what may happen with this advancement. I have responded to the rest in my other comments.
And this is my point. And to make your point clear you don´t need to be dismissive of others who are supposed to be in the same boat, this is a distraction from the real points discussed in this post. Because we are in the same boat, aren´t we?
Excellent post….well communicated and expressed.
GENESIS AND CHARACTER OF ISLAM
Muhammad followed in the footsteps of Jesus in making the same sort of claims for himself, cursing his own people in the choicest language of monotheism, and threatening them with slaughter. He, however, did not have to struggle against a centralized state when he found that his prophethood had no attraction for the people of Mecca. He migrated to Medina which was more receptive to monotheism because of a large presence of Jews in that town, and emerged as a powerful potentate. He ended by exiling or killing en mass the Jewish population which resisted him as soon as he came out in his true colours. Meanwhile, he had amassed much wealth by plundering merchant caravans and scattered Arab settlements. He created the nucleus of a standing army out of the toughs and desperados who flocked to him in increasing numbers for committing crimes and sharing the loot. In short, he built the apparatus of a military state in Medina and used it for imposing his closed creed on the tribal settlements of Arabia by means of armed force. The doctrines of Islam were tailored to the needs of this galloping tyranny, and sold with the help of the sword. And the sword was stamped with the name of an almighty Allah in whose service the ancient religion and culture of Arabia were destroyed root and branch.
Looks Like Vijay Singh has not read the history. Over a period of time propaganda wins, even if it is not true. Good example is Vikings, who really were not barbarians, but they were painted as such by Christian monks, who could write and did their best to portray Vikings as barbarians. Today Vikings are not looked favorably. Hindus face a bigger threat of secularists Hindus painting Hinduism & Hindus negatively, while portraying Muslim fundamentalists in much less negatively.
if you really think like so, accept Hindu religion provoke Indian thought
do not provoke indian thought
“Hindu children are not taught to look down on those who are not Hindus,”—what about cast system in india? Who brought this? In fact low community people(AS PER VEDIC RULE) are not considered as Hindus. Even today in most of the big temples in TN , people are not allowed to enter certain places except the so called people who came from bramha’s head.!!!!!.
“Hindus never fought crusades or jihads to establish their dharma in foreign lands”.— How about the decline of budist in india? Who pushed them to Sri Lanka in around 6th century AD? Who destroyed budha temples in TN. Have you ever read about Adisankarar and budhas? Probably you never know the clash between vishnava and shiva in 9th century in TN which took the lIves of more than lakhs. Ha ha, yes Hindus never fought like crusaders or jihads.
Do you know anything about KEELADI in TN? Archeological site found in TN which does not have any identities of hindu religion(dated 2500 years back).
This article has lots of flaws and misconceptions. I have pointed out only two.
I am not supporting Christianity nor Islam but Hindu nation is not possible in India due the fact that India is a secular country and every religion should be allowed. I do agree with some of your points but
“Hindus do not, unlike Christians and Muslims, divide humanity into those who are chosen by God and those who are eternally damned. Hindu children are not taught to look down on those who are not Hindus, unlike children of the dogmatic religions who are taught that their God does not love those others unless they join their ‘true’ religions.”
^ this is not true at all. No religion is perfect and every religion has its own flaws, Hindus practiced Sati (women jumping into the pit with their husband) and they have difference castes within themselves. Upper caste Brahmins are not supposed to touch Shudras as they are called Untouchables. In fact there were times when Upper class wouldn’t even sit besides the lower classes for food etc. (till the late 20th century) I am not talking bad about hinduism all I am saying is:
If you look closely every religion has its own flaws. After all, if religion is given too much importance we forget the very purpose of life since every religion has its own merits and demerits.
Thank u Maria for ur faith in Hinduism. God Bless You
The article is a wonderful read. But you get the wrong side of the story. Indian Media’s hype comes from genuine reasons. Majority of advocates who fight for this concept of Hindu Nation are actually extremists who purpose is to exclude other religions from the mainstream. This is doubled by the fact that Hinduism which propagated through its arguments and fought a lot of jihads with its arguments and language of love, has been put into a narrow lens by some organisations who are forcing their beliefs on others, even to the extent of killing and murdering people for the same. RSS, BJP and its other sister organisations don’t propagate this view of Hinduism, their view is that of narrowing down the discourse which is the reason of the entire problem. The media is rightfully worried because this version of Hindu Nation does not have any resonance with whatever you are advocating for in the article.
The media’s wary is genuine and even you should be worried because your version of hinduism is also under threat from them.
Whatever has been written about Hinduism seems to be true. My entry point is only this, there is huge difference between Hinduism, which has diversified philosophies, followed by various social groups, sects and castes. Hinduism with all its diversity had its own history of accepting various different strands in its fold, and it took thousands of years to emerge in its present form. I think comparing it with Christian and Muslim nations is utter foolishness.
Second those nations have different histories and evolved very differently, politically too.
Third the idea is not to compare Hinduism, with other religious countries but how we have imagined our nation with all its diversity.
The problem is not with Hinduism but the very recent phenomena called ‘Hindutva’ the political ideology to make this diversified Hinduism into the ‘religion’ which it is not, to take out all its diversity and practices and making it like Islam and Christianity. There comes the difference!! This is just one point to reflect! The danger which everyone talks about is what happens when the Hinduism which you talk about turns into a ‘Religion’ and becomes rigid like Islam and Christianity..what happens to diversity, practices, philosophies, cults ,castes and then the issues with minorities, marginalised. How to explore the possibility politically, shall we all wait???
What a line “where else religious minorities have flourished…” dear MW, are you aware of the cast system and how they treated the people of schedule casts and tribes. Talking about tolerance. At least other religions unlike Hinduism don’t have the category of untouchables. The reservation system still plagues the Indian economy till date due to this cast system. And people who raised voices against that were no media outlets or Christian missionaries. It were the Hindus world famous ones who knew the difference. No religion is better than the other.
Thank you for the article sir.Reading this will enable people to respect their true ancient identify and culture and discourage pseadu scecularist to misguide common man .
MW I’ve no idea where you did learn it, whether it is your personal experience from India or living outside of India, but I am pretty sure you never been in India
Just personally invitation for you,please come to India learn more about India before you write a next article, and one more thing that don’t write without knowledge about any religions
THE MISTAKE MADE BY HINDU SOCIETY
Hindu society has to understand very clearly that what it is faced with in the form of Christianity and Islam are not religions but imperialist ideologies whose appetite has been whetted by running roughshod over a large part of the world. Hindu society is making a serious, almost a fatal mistake, in appealing to these ideologies in the name of reason and morality which are supposed to accompany religion. This sort of appeal is bound to fail because it falls on deaf ears. The menace has to be met by methods and means which are suited to the nature and magnitude of the menace. Hitler had said that if the chicken and geese pass a resolution about peace, the wolf is not convinced. There is little chance that Hindu society will ever be able to contain Christianity or Islam if it continues to regard these aggressive and imperialist ideologies as religions, and extend tolerance to them.
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In reality, the abolition of human sacrifice was a universal evolution equally affecting Pagan cultures such as the Romans. In the case of Brahmanism, it is speculated that the Vastu-Purusha concept (a human frame deemed to underlie a house) is a memory of a pre-Vedic human sacrifice. Even if true, fact is that in really existing Brahmanism, human sacrifice has not been part of it for thousands of years; if it had, we would be reminded of it every day. In this respect, Brahmanism was definitely ahead of the rest of humanity.
This way, Sati came in very handy to justify an offensive in India. Mind you, in a military sense India had partly been conquered already, and British self-confidence at the time was such that the complete subjugation of the Subcontinent seemed assured. The offensive in this case was not military, its target was the Christianization of the East India Company, to be followed by the conversion of its subject population. Around 1800, the Company was still purely commercial and even banned missionaries: their religious zeal might create riots, and these would be bad for business. So, the Christian lobby had to convince the British Parliamentarians that the Christianization of India was good and necessary, and therefore worthy of the Company’sactive or passive support, namely to free the natives from barbarism. To that end, there was no better eye-catcher than Sati.
THE INDIAN CULTURE IS A SPIRITUAL CULTURE WHICH DEALS AT A PLANE WHOSE DIMENSIONS REVOLVE THAT OF AN ASTRAL BODY AND IT ALWAYS MAKES EFFORTS FOR SELF EVOLUTION AND SPIRITUAL PROGRESS (I KNOW YOU HAVE NOT MADE ANY………..YOU EVEN LACK AUTHENTIC AND JUSTIFIABLY TRUE HISTORIC FACTS………ALL YOU KNOW IS TOM TOM FROM MARXIST HISTORIANS).
INDIA’S CAST SYSTEM HAS EXISTED SINCE TIME MEMORIAL AND IT WAS A VERY DYNAMIC SYSTEM WHICH MANAGED TO SAVE INDIA DURING SAVAGE ONSLAUGHT OF CHRISTIANITY………………….WHERE PLACES LIKE SYRIA AND EGYPT FELL TO INVADERS AND LOST ITS ANCIENT TRADITION. …………THIS SYSTEM BECAME RIGID ONLY AFTER HINDUS LOST POLITICAL POWER AND WERE SUBJECTED TO SEVERE EXPLOITATION WHENEVER THEY WERE TOO NUMEROUS TO BE KILLED.
Mrs Maria please do not remove my comment this time………….in case that was the reason it was not published……..
GENESIS AND CHARACTER OF CHRISTIANITY
Some historians in the West have serious doubts about the very existence of a man called Jesus Christ.3 And almost all historians agree that if he existed at all, nothing can be known about his person or teaching because all contemporary sources, Christian and non-Christian, are either silent or unreliable regarding the subject. Thus all we have is the Jesus of the Gospels which are now regarded as theological statements rather than a record of historical events. And Jesus of the Gospels is a questionable character. He makes tall claims about himself, and curses all those who do not accept those claims. He denounces his own people as sons of the Devil and killers of prophets.
In due course, Christian theology came to proclaim that Jesus was the only-begotten son of the only true god; that he had been sent down in order to wash with his own blood the sins of mankind by mounting the cross; that he had risen from the dead on the third day and appeared to his apostles in flesh and bones; that he was the same as his father whose divinity he shared in full; that those who accepted him as the only saviour had all their sins washed by his blood; that he had entered his apostles as the holy ghost and entrusted them with the mission of saving all mankind from eternal hell-fire; that the Church founded by the apostles and joined by the converts was his body and bride; and that the whole world had been mandated to the Church by the father and the son and the holy ghost.
What one finds striking about these ridiculous statements is that none of them can stand the test of human reason or experience. The Church declares them to be mysteries beyond the reach of human understanding. The apostles had tried to sell these mysteries to the Jews in Jerusalem. The only response they met was dismissal with contempt. Next, they tried these mysteries on Jewish communities settled in Syria, Asia Minor and Greece. They had some small success but most of the time met with considerable resistance. Finally, they took this merchandise to the metropolitan mart at Rome where their business found some firm footing for the first time. It was in Rome that the methods of missionary salesmanship were matured over a period of time. The structure of the Roman empire provided a model for the structure of the Church. The missionaries got busy building a state within the state.
In the next two centuries, the Church became a rich and powerful organisation with members in many leading families of Rome. It found many adherents among politicians who wielded power, among military commanders who were superstitious or in need of political support, and among merchants who had money but no brains for philosophical questions. The mother of emperor Severus (222-235 AD) became a Christian. So did emperor Philip the Arabian (244-249 AD). Helena, the mother of Constantine, was also a Christian convert. Now the Church extended the Divine Right to rule as a despot to anyone who was prepared to declare Christianity as the sole state religion and suppress all pagan religions. Constantine who wanted to secure a dynastic succession for his family – a practice unknown to Roman politics so far – saw his opportunity in this new doctrine, and proclaimed in favour of the Church. The common people in Rome resisted this royal renegade. So he removed his capital from Rome to Byzantium which was renamed Constantinople.
The precedent set by Constantine in consolidating a dynastic despotism with the help of the Church was copied by many crowned heads all over Europe in subsequent centuries. The king in pagan societies was only the first among equals. The Church enabled him to become an unbridled autocrat who derived his authority not from the community over which he ruled but from God Almighty. The conflicts which developed between these autocrats and the powerful Church with a Pope at its head, came much later, after the common people all over Europe had been enslaved and deprived of their traditional institutions which safeguarded their fundamental freedoms. For quite some time, the Church cooperated with the kings to convert the common people everywhere into hewers of wood and drawers of water.
This was one part of the story. Another was a large-scale destruction of ancient religions all over Europe, Asia Minor, and North Africa where the Church spread its tentacles with the help of despotic rulers. All pagan schools were closed, all pagan temples were demolished or converted into churches, and all pagan images were publicly defiled and destroyed. Pagan books were burnt and pagan priests were killed, mostly by Christian monks who led Christian mobs after lecturing them into fevered frenzy. That is how Christianity triumphed over pagan religions and societies – not by the power of its moral or spiritual superiority or the logic of its doctrines, but by the power of the sword wielded by despicable despots.
i did not remove any post by you. i let all posts through, except abusive ones. maybe it did not reach?
I fully agree with your view points about Hinduism mam.It was like a mirror to me about my great culture which propagates harmony and wisdom for all.I am glad that you got to knew Hindustan and Hinduism in such a apt manner so that it’s true essence was found.
How much knowledgeable you are! And how much clarity in mind you show in this and in your other comments. “Tell the truth and do what has to be done according circumstances” should be the motto even if what we have to say is not always pleasant for everybody.
Maria Namaskar I do not know what I have to say you blog” ARE CHRISTIAN AND MUSLIM NATIONS OK AND HINDU NATIONS NOT?” you have dwelt on everything Hinduism says your writing has been to the point without any prejudice. I firmly believe that we Indians are blessed to have you in India writing about Hinduism with clarity and with authority I sometime feel ashamed that Maria Wirth a German is so well informed about my religion I am not ashamed to share this here.
I firmly believe that with the Blessings of Mummoorthigal & Mookambika they have sent you to
India to be among us to teach us about our religion. Otherwise why should a Maria Wirth someone who was born in a predominantly Christian country come to India and meet two renowned saints at Kumbha Mela in Haridwar and then on stayed back in India.
Maria no main stream media will every publish you writing or the News Channels every interview you because you are now a Hindu Fundamentalist as they call all Hindus in India. I run out of words to write anything because you have addressed all that I wanted to say in your blog forthright without any prejudice. I admire you honesty when you deal with Islam & Christianity on one god no other god quote “Christians and Muslims perceive Divinity in its highest form as a personal, superhuman entity who is jealous of other gods. The first commandment in Christianity and a very important issue in Islam is the claim that nobody must worship other gods except the ‘one true god’, which both religions claim is only with them.”
Unquote
Thank you Maria keep writing in your Blog because knowledge is like an ocean
Other countries are called Christian or Muslim as a majority of their ‘nationals’ are born or follow that particular religion. The other religions that you see there are primarily followed by the migrant community. India on the other hand is more diverse. ‘Indian nationals’ follow different religions. Muslims and Christians in India are not migrants to India. Originally Indian people have chosen to follow a religion other that Hinduism. That is why, the concept of a ‘Hindu’ nation worries ‘Indians’ who are not Hindus.
Maria is trying to Christianize or Islamize Hinduism …! India is a country where Hindus and other minorities are present . This is a secular nation because all of us (our ancestors) fight bravely for getting freedom . Our National leaders have made a decision that the rights of all people groups will be honored in the newly formed nations . This nation should follow the directives made by the fathers of this nation. Untied we will stand , divided we will fall. Fundamentalism is against the concept of modern India . All nations in the world can follow this concept , “Unity in diversity ” , the motto of modern India , which is highly rooted in Hinduism. But you don’t want to talk about it instead take the old concept of polarizing nations based on religion.
Indian Independence Movement was not about a free Hindu nation. Also Independent India was not about a Hindu Nation. The participants of Indian Independence Movement were Muslims, Hindus, Christians, Sikhs and so on. The constitution of India states India a secular state. The notion of making India a Hindu nation is a hypocrisy by radical HIndutva proponents and some Hindu intellectuals because they fear intellectual dialogue with respect to religion and about God. So, India cannot be a Hindu Nation. So, this emotional and illogical appeal is not rational but I doubt it has an hidden agenda. And also see who has promoted this?
The Constitution says that India will be secular. The word ‘secular’ was added later, but the ethos of secularism was embedded in the beginning itself. So to argue for a Hindu nation is to argue that Constitution of India be changed. It may be worthwhile to know why the architects of the Constitution did not make India a Hindu nation. The India (or Bharat) that we now talk about was born in 1947, and its Constitution came into effect in 1950. The India before that comprised of present day Pakistan and Bangladesh. I would call this as greater-India or akhand Bharat. But this akhand Bharat did not include states that are there in the North East and are now part of India. The Jaintias, Khasis, Mizos, Nagas et al. who are inhabitants of the North Eastern states were never part of akhand Bharat and they were never ever Hindus — whether one denotes ‘Hindu’ in territorial sense or in religious sense. Ancient Indian kings never ventured into this region. They were dragged into India by the British. So when India got independence in 1947, with such diverse history, it was a fragile state. If the architects of the Constitution had made India a Hindu state, many regions would violently break away from India in 1947 itself. So if one knows the history and diversity of India, to argue for a Hindu state is to call for the break-up of India.
Yes, Christianity is an exclusivist religion ( if by religion we mean the belief, practice etc.) because there is explicit belief that Jesus is the only one Lord and God. This exclusivist belief became the basis for people of other religion to be tortured and persecuted in Christendom. Anyone who has read European history would know about this. It took over 1500 years for Christians to come with an idea that religious exclusivism cannot entail political exclusivism. To put it differently, though Christianity is exclusivist, in nations where Christians are majority, politically it has to be inclusive. Today no Christianised nations or a Christian would call people who are not Christians to be burnt at stake or be stoned to death. There is virtually no Christian theocratic state today. Today Muslims are grappling with this issue. Whether Islam will evolve like Christianity did or not is something we would have to wait and see. With present day technology that makes the world smaller, Islam will have to evolve this way or that way, or it may self destruct. After all people want more democratic space all over.
If you look at Nepal, until very recently it was a Hindu theocratic state. One may ask: If Hinduism is inclusive, how come it had a political institution that did not allow freedom of religion to the citizens? My point is that a religion that is exclusivist or inclusive does not necessarily imply that adherents of that religion will necessarily have a political institution that reflects the character of the religion. Transition from religion towards constructing a political philosophy/theory takes effort to negotiate here and there.
As a practising Christian, I would want Christianity dominated states to continue to give freedom of religion to the citizens. Similarly, I would argue that Islam or Buddhism or Hinduism dominated states should continue to give freedom of religion to the citizens. This call for Hindu nation, Christian nation, Islamic nation etc. should not be made. Why must we call for a state where people who follow a religion different from that of the majority be sent to jail or discriminated against?
If you think that being a Hindu is good for you, and you are convinced that it will be good for others then spread the word. Put it bluntly: convert others to your belief. Freedom of religion will mean freedom to share your religious belief to others, which in turn implies that others are also free to share their beliefs to you particularly if you are willing to listen. What is wrong is to force people to believe what I believe, whether this coercion comes through the religious institution or through the state.
Dear Jeremiah A.V. Duoma The constitution did not have the word Secular as you have rightly pointed out it was inserted later on during Mrs.Indira Gandhi regime. We are predominantly Hindu country if UK USA can proclaim they are a christian country rightfully so we Indians can also say we are a Hindu Nation kindly note that except India & Nepal where Hindus are majority we as Hindus are a Minority in this world.
So all this secular talk is just for the sake of votes the politicians indulge in and also because missionaries sponsor many and they are duty bound to support and talk about secularism and Hindu Fundamentalist. India is a land of Great Rishisis it is this which protects our sacred land from all this attack from various overseas religious fundamentalist who want to propagate and cover India into their fold
KN Ramesh, US/UK as Christian nation. Since when? If you read political history to find out why separation of religion and state came to be maintained in European states, you will learn that it was because of bloody battle between different religious factions. Today if you want to turn India into Hindu state, it will lead to bloodshed. Please get out of your town and see and read about other parts of India as well. India is a Hindu dominated nation, but since ancient times till now, as I stated above, my ancestors have never even Hindus. And, before India got independence my ancestors have became Christians, but that’s a different story.
All this secular talk could be for votes, but all this Hindu nation could also be for votes. But the reason why secular ethos was woven into the Constitution in the beginning was in order to keep India together while acknowledging its diversity. To strip of such political values and convert India into a Hindu state is to take India into 10th century Europe.
You mention of overseas religious fundamentalist. But what would you say of emperor Ashoka sending out hundreds of Buddhist missionaries to Sri Lanka, Thailand, Cambodia etc. to convert them to Buddhism? Do you think he was an overseas religious fundamentalist to these nations? In my view, “freedom of religion/conscience” implies that anyone is free to propagate his or her religion/philosophy/culture/ideology within the bound of fair speech i.e without using lies, insult etc. so that people of other religion/philosophy/culture/ideology may change. If whatever you belief and say is right and whatever I say and believe is right, then conversation has no meaning.
True ‘why not a Hindu nation’. But no, our Constitution says otherwise, by which we live in this beautiful country. To uphold the constitution and defend its ‘true values’ is our duty. Your sympathetic view of an un-secular India is pathetic. That secularism, Hopefully, will resurface in the mainstream media like you mentioned, that the Vedic religion in inclusive which is ‘becoming’ the other.
[…] blog piece by Maria Wirth – a German settled in India – called ‘Are Christian and Muslim Nations OK and Hindu Nations Not?‘, Originally published on 21 April 2017 in Wirth’s personal blog, the piece gained […]
Absolutely fantastic article.
God is within us and when we abuse others, we abuse the same God within them.
God also does not need our help and intervention to help others love him or understand him. As long as we appreciate this, we don’t need to use religion as a tool to destroy other human beings.
Most importantly, the true essence of Sanathana Dharma is that parmarthika [or understanding GOD] is different from lokarthika [worldly purposes]. Religion is lokarthika and a way of life. It has got so little to do with GOD,
Namaste Maria, indeed a beautiful article. Wonderful in-depth assessment. A must read for all . God bless you
I promote this. A spanish HIndu who regards Bharat as my Mother (and with familiar links with India). So being marxist and Islamist or Christian or pro-either of the three is “secular”, but being HIndu is being radical?
“Secularism” is a notion absolutely alien to the Indian ethos. It comes from Europe when, after the MIddle Age, the power of interfering of the Catholic Church was so strong in every affair, that they had to look for a solution in which state and religion (CATHOLIC Christian religion, not any) would be absolutely separated. Why? Because Catholic Church wanted everybody and everything to be seen from a Christian view, and that was preventing very much the advance of science, when instead of letting scientists do their jobs, everything had to be in accordance with the Bible.
The result of this artificial imported concept in India is that in India the things are working, theoretically, in a “secular” way, but practically, in an anti-Hindu way and pro-minorities. Because both religions want everybody to become on their fold through conversions. It is in the core of their dogmas, unlike Sanatana Dharma.
A Hindu India, also in my view, would comply much more with a REAL concept of secularism: freedom for ALL to practice their religions. Because conversion IS NOT IN THE CORE of Hinduism.
This is the gist of all the story why a Hindu nation could work as REALLY secular, without favouring anybody just because of the religion that s/he belongs. But favouring or helping whatever individual in need.
Mainstream media parrots and defends the world “secular” meaning in reality “pro-minorities” and “anti-Hindu”. That is NOT secularism. They do not even know what it is. Only the western masters say it is good, so they have to say it is good.
Superb, ultimate truth.
Politicians would never allow scrapping of personal laws for selfish political gains motivated by the west and vested interests.
i live in India since 37 years.
Thank you for all your highly informative, excellent comments on my blog.
She doesn´t write “without knowledge” about any religions. 🙂
I will do my part on spreading your knowledgeable comment. Thanks for it.
Love to read the article by Shradheya Bahan Ji. Hinduism is an inclusive religion based on Truth and Dharma. The righteous is the word here to be read at the place of the Dharma. We do not use religion and dharma vice versa pl.
Let me make very clear that out of Hundred births to Human bening only one happens to the Bharat Bhumi,PunyaBhumi,MatruBhumi,HinduBhumi The purest one. Its our old Karma due to that we are born here as human being. Our job is “Wayam Rashtre Jagruyam Purohitah” , and one who is not following this dharma is not Brahman.
So let me assure we are changing , our country is changing , There was no need to change name of BharatVarsha/Hindustan as India after independence , it was to just to include Bapu and Chacha to this generation of people without any solid reason by the English .
BharatMata is etrnal to this PunyaBhumi. We worship this land to our mother. We were never against any faith whatever you say it like Islam,Christianity,jews etc since time immortal. we feel and appreciate that the Char, Achar being of whole world are from Brahman. The Sat Chit Anand is granted by virue of him only. We are always with truth and reformation and discovery is part of the hinduism which is often brought in side by our great Sages,Gurus and the great people of the Kaliyuga.
Bharat Mata Ki Jay!!!
Superb Logical and true thoughts . Thanks for sharing your views Maria.
Regs
Your problem lies in your education which was designed to say what you say now. Why India can’t be a Hindu Rashtra when she was divided based on religion? Majority Muslims and 100% Christians can’t claim any role in freedom fight, Christians were with the Brits completely and never wanted freedom from them. Constitution was baptised as Secular later by the so called liberals and leftists with the help of our history’s biggest blunder Jawaharlal Nehru. The present day secularism is appeasing minorities by rejecting the majority Hindu’s rights and not acceptable.
Your History lessons are given to you by the missionaries who had only one aim to convert you. I ‘m not here to teach you your own history read it from someone other than your stupid missionaries and pastors first.
Absolutely wonderful article Maria Wirth, you are more an Indian than a German to us, true to veda teachings of who we are. Jay Ho.
Which bit of history are you referring to? About the North East? If so, I would rather say that as one from the North East I know more of North East and its history than most Indians.
Indian was always a plural society,. founding father never wanted the word Secular.. it was inserted by Indira Gandhi… secular word is fit to western countries where church was major influence.. in India religious leaders were always helped to reform society..
pleasing to read this article.. its because of Hindus that this nation is Plural.. otherwise we can see how churches were influential in west and how sharia is applied in all islamic countries
No indian rishi ever talked about earth orbiting sun. Yes Aryabhat did suggest that earth revolved on its axis and was round. He even measured the earth’s circumference. He explained the phenomena of eclipses and debunked Hindu myths that thrive even today. He was persecuted by brahmins and many of his manuscripts burnt down. Besides rests on a heirarchical caste system which confers privileges on a small percentage of socalled upper caste condemning the majority as shudra and untouchables who are destined do serve the upper castes… Hinduism is one of the brutal within and hence Hindu could never fight invading armies.
It is difficult for a Roman Catholic to become President of USA the only exception being JFK.Even Obama has to prove he is a true christian by flooding internet with pictures with pastor.
The problem is not about India being called a Hindu nation or a secular or by any other name. The problem is the attitude of leaders of this movement who want to make India a Hindu nation.
You can check out what the leaders – Yogi Adityanath, Praveen Togadia, Sadhvi Prachi – and the like said. You can say these are fringe elements but then if you want to call the CM of the most populous state, a member of parliament, the head of a Sangh Parivar organizaton as fringe elements, pray tell me who are the mainstream.
Anything which does not conform to your beliefs become stupid! How convenient and equally lame!!!
Great article. I always found Buddhism and Hinduism influential on Asia and the world. Both, especially Buddhism, have syncretic approaches to religion outside of India.
The liberal bias towards Muslims is because there are a lot of peaceful Muslims in the West, and the fear of Islamphobia. In a certain degree, we do have Islamphobes. However, the criticism of certain forms of Islam is completely valid. But liberals will get mad and use “Islamphobia” to justify shutting down any valid debates on the subject. They also tie such things to racism. While India itself has never completely recovered from the decimation of the Muslims on the culture for a thousand years, and then 200 years of Brit rule.
Most of this is ignorance, as they do not see that a good chunk of Hindus practice ahimsa. I am not scared of a Hindu state so much, because India is home to some major religions in the world and they are pretty tolerant. However, I would prefer India be secular.
I find “Hinduism” to be an umbrella term for the original indigenous religions of the area that have similar beliefs and practices, especially in gods. I find the term similar to the term “pagan” that it encompasses many practices/religions.
[…] blog piece by Maria Wirth – a German settled in India – called ‘Are Christian and Muslim Nations OK and Hindu Nations Not?‘, Originally published on 21 April 2017 in Wirth’s personal blog, the piece gained […]
Dear Ms.Wirth,
I do not know about the issue raised by you and as always you have been very forthright.
I have noticed in Germany,Switzerland and Austria that women date more Arabs and Turks.Never seen any Indian with them.A personal issue no doubt but western girls are not bothered about conversions at all.They don’t mind their children converted to Islam from birth even if they don’t convert themselves.Your thoughts on this will be very enlightening.Regards,
No doubt these ethnic people are handsome but are looks that important to the western girls?I am sure they are not frivolous enough to fall for money.
[…] article was originally published on Maria Wirth Blog. Please visit author’s blog for more such […]
Oh Ho Ho Jeremiah… Are you in India? Muslims and Christians in particular have grown 10 times over the last two decades.. Merely by way of coercion, either by way of a favor(money, education, treatment for ailments etc) or by brainwashing and sheer force.. Please know the facts before jumping the gun.. Maria makes 100 percent sense
Yes, I am in India. Let me give few reasons why your accusation is just a lie. First, the Census figure of Christians in India in 1951 is 2.3%, and again in 2011, it still stands at 2.3%. Second, Use of coercion to convert people is illegal, and if there are such cases policemen could take action. There is no police report about forced conversion. Third, In India where Hindus are in sheer majority, it would be astounding for Christians to be able to use force to convert people. And in the given situation where Christians are in sheer minority, Christians have no such resources to convert people forcefully. Fourth, people do not normally convert because of force. In the past where there are kings, such things did happen. But today where people cannot put to death other person, there is no plausibility in such narrative. Fifth, Christians themselves consider forced conversion to be wrong and illegal, and therefore there is no reason why such things would be supported.
Dear Maria,
Thank you. Born in Germany but having lived most of my life in other countries between UK and India, I made similar observations.
In view of the bigger picture, I’d say that it is no secret that mainstream media tends to pick the negative aspects of a subject (‘only bad news are good news’) and generally never promotes any life perspectives, teachings, tools and insights that are truly self-empowering and liberating. And why would they? To keep the masses uninformed, small and in modern slavery is most convenient for certain people.
It comes as no surprise that India’s spiritual science and India’s potency are denied, suppressed and even ridiculed. India’s rich culture simply states a threat to Western lifestyle which is infiltrated by fear and greed. The Western mindframe is linear, rational and focused on consumerism and external achievements. And it is most unfortunate, that the East began copying the West.
But whether East, Middle East or West, it is high time to remember that we are inherently multidimensional, spiritual beings and begin to view life and influences around us accordingly. This implies to go beyond one personified god and see oneness in all, go beyond our fivesense perception and train our inner antennae for higher sense perception (HSP) like intuition, third eye cognition, inner knowing and self awareness of our own energy fields and soul signatures. In short: go within and connect to Source directly. Without any mediators – neither religions nor gurus.
The majority of the so called spiritual leaders in religious communities or sanghas are manipulative narcissists anyway. They have an undercover agenda (power, control, wealth accumulation) and siphon – overtly or subliminally, consciously or unconsciously – lifeforce and resources from their ‘targets’. From naiv budding seekers as well as mesmerised, mind-controlled followers and admirers. All in the name of some noble cause.
It is high time for each individual to wake up and self-responsibly release destructive dependencies, limiting imprints and dysfunctional conditionings that were picked up since birth and during the formative years of childhood – ancestral beliefs as well as collective behaviour- and value-patterns. There is a lot to do for each single one of us.
May maximum discernment, tenacity, light, love and peace be with us.
By the way, another German who lives abroad and does excellent work:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27I6Z4wm9w8
Dear Maria
Thanks for this thought provoking article what we need is a Govt which can say India is a Hindu Nation we do not have to worry about any body in this matter as usual the secular minds in this country will scream shout which will make one deaf let them do what they know best because it they who encourage all this conversion by missionaries turning a blind eye to all that is happening around us and most of them hide behind their alias names because they do not want others to know they are Christians.
“”Because Catholic Church wanted everybody and everything to be seen from a Christian view, and that was preventing very much the advance of science” Christianity is in principle a ‘bimodal’ religion, as the sovereignty and independence of the ‘state’ or ‘the empire’ or the worldly things was granted also due to Jesus’ phrase ‘Give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God what is God’s.’ Of course, the church has sometimes intervened too much into society, but there was never a true theocracy in the West. The biggest influence were in the arts (the Bishop of Salzburg promoted Mozart). The belief into one God as a universal rule-giver has promoted the scientific search, of course. If everything that happens in the world is by chance of by the mood of Gods, then there is no reason to look for natural laws. The first real modern scientists appeared already in the 15th century. Most important Catholic scientists: G. Mendel, a monk, who detected the rules of inheritance. G.Lemaitre, priest, inventor of the Big Bang theory. P.T. de Chardin, Society of Jesus, ethnologist, paleontologist, philosopher. Kepler and Newton were also believers. The case with Galilei is not so straightforward as most people think. The vaticans operates a observatory and helds an academy of sciences, where contemporary issues are discussed with top scientists.
i agree with some of your points. But I don’t agree that the media is against a hindu nation. I would say that at this point it is more plausible and Hinduism is getting more attention through the media because it has harmony with judaism. Please read my blog , I have explained this in detail.
Dear Jeremiah A.V. Duoma Good Day your response above Quote “, it would be astounding for Christians to be able to use force to convert people. And in the given situation where Christians are in sheer minority, Christians have no such resources to convert people forcefully” Unquote this is not true the fact is missionaries from abroad send money via NGO this is used for converting kindly see Rajiv Malhotra video on YouTube where he has proved that conversion are taking place in India. Then you census theory Hindus are in Majority is right yes because we are a Hindu nation and only one other than Nepal in this world is a Hindu nation but we are a minority in this world dominated by Christians and Muslims which is a fact. India is a fertile place for conversion because of poverty. Christianity says if you do not believe in Christ you will go to hell this is again forced belief You will never find a atheist in Christianity because an atheist will be shunned by Christians whereas Hinduism accepts atheist for what they are Hinduism never says if you don’t believe in our god you will go to hell
That’s really great and in-depth analysis of hinduism. Hinduism is a victim of pseudo Secularism since infinity. However the theocratic state concept will not appeal to hindus themselves
Somebody has replied at ‘Eleventh Column’ to this article of Wirth. I have posted my comment there as follows:
Your piece of response to Maria Wirth’s article on ‘why objection to Hindu nation, if you do not object to Christian nation’ theme though looks like full of scholarly wisdom but in essence is without any substance. You cite NYT articles to say that liberal media there too is against ‘Christian nation’ idea. In your eagerness to refute Wirth’s thesis, you cite ‘Caste discrimination’ of Hinduism. It is a ‘Brahm Ashtra’ to attack Hinduism not only by you alone; the entire West utilizes it, though for conversion purpose. Dear friend, come to the reality and don’t play with words to show wisdom. US is a Christian nation; even the president takes oath there on Bible; most of educational institutions are funded and controlled by Church; in Germany, State funds Church. This much the worth of NYT pieces. Yes, US etc. tolerates Hindu people – unlike Islam – but the hate and defame Hinduism in the name of Caste evil etc; they oppose Hindu things – like Yoga – if possible; if not claim as invented by them. Your this piece is highly superficial with a color of depth.Yes, Caste as it is practised today – inherited by birth – is an evil but all good things degenerate with the passage of time and need adaptation and improvement to suit the changed time. You read all blogs of Wirth, she is much deep and wiser than you. And one thing more: if you have time and aptitude to discuss serious subjects, then read some material of your liking here:
http://indianpeoplescongress.wordpress.com/
I do not deny that Christians try to convert people into Christianity; I just deny that there is forceful conversion today.
Yes, one cannot be an atheist and be a Christian… because Christians’ belief is that there is a God that exists, and so those who say that God does not exist is wrong. You say that one can be an atheist or a theist and be a Hindu. Of course, that’s a big difference between Christianity and Hinduism.
Great reply.
The caste system is best explained in God Talks To Arjuna by Yogananda.This was all about Sandhya Bhasha which is not taught at any university.It
s found in Bible and especially the Book Of Revelation.The concept of caste was misused by selfish people.Even today,not Brahmins but Kshatriyas( Thakoors) seem to be tormenting people.Nobody has any courage to denigrate nay other religion except Hinduism.I wonder why that is.All were ,ultimately,interpreted based on “revelations as claimed” by humans.All have flaws.Dr.Farookh Abdulla has gone on record claiming( at least) that his forefathers were Saraswat Brahmins.Many Christian patients of mine have proudly claimed the same .
You seem to have missed the point..how can you claim the author is trying to christianize Hinduism? Her point is, Hinduism is inherently secular and secularism would be better served in a Hindu country than in a Christian or Muslim country. She has expressed surprise that the media accepts it without battling an eyelid when Cameron describes England as a Christian country or America is described as a Christian country but works itself up to a lather when India is described as a Hindu country.
Thank you
Great article. Highly objective and written with an open,unbiased mind
The fact is India ruled by Moguls for 800 years and Christians for 200 years so many temples destroyed in the process. Many an Hindu Kings fought the Moguls and Christians the length and breadth of India but the British never acknowledge this and their history book is full of distortion glorifying Moguls and Christians this has to be looked into and these books have to taken of the educational system hence many of us or ignorant of true facts.
During this period many Hindus were forced to convert or they were killed such was the atmosphere prevailing in this Hindu Land but in spite of .all this we continue be 80% Hindu nation. Most of our temples are controlled by the Govt and all the income from this goes to the Govt but none of Mosques or Churches are in Govt Control and muslims going of Ha pilgrimage get subsidy from the Govt the tax payer bears all this.
” Highly objective and written with an open,unbiased mind”
Improbable. Social, cultural, religious opinions must be considerably unobjective. Most people tend to ascribe an opinion as objective, good and correct, if it complies with their own ideas.
Maria as a convert is clearly in complete opposition to Christianity. Converts are mostly the most fundamentalist. We can observe that in Europe with converts to Islam.
If you read slowly through the article, you will realize that Hindu Dharma is not a religion based on blind belief. It is not an opinion, but can be verified in own experience. Intellect alone won’t do. One needs to follow certain rules, like Satya vada Dharam Chara.
Speak the truth, do what is right
Wonderful Article..
Great to know that Maria has such a deep and clear understanding of Hindus and Hinduism..
Read the book “ Breaking India “ by Rajiv Malhotra and Aravind Neelakandan. This will open your eyes if you’re willing to let them open. If you choose to deliberately shut your eyes on the conversion agenda of the Christians, you are as bad as the missionaries who always prey on the poor and the vulnerable. Your statistics on the percentage of Christian population in India needs to be taken with a bucket load of salt. You very well know that a lot of converted Dalit Hindus still state their religion as Hindu to get all the benefits, all at the instigation of the church. Your religion exudes exclusivism and history centric and non believers go to hell . Period. The joke you have a “ judgment day”!! Even humans are encouraged to be non judgmental but apparently this doesn’t apply to your MALE ANGRY GOD AND HIS ONLY SON . God is supposed to be infallible but being judgemental, the God of Christianity falls flat on his male face. Piece of advice. Don’t try to defend the indefensible, that’s Christianity .
What is “fundamentalism “ about Hinduism please? How can a religion which is pluralistic by its very nature and which has no dogmas and which even has atheism as one of the Dhashana ( view) can be “ fundamental????? Christianity and Islam can be fundamental but Hinduism CANNOT BE FUNDAMENTAL. Period!
I wrote: ‘Converts are mostly the most fundamentalist’. You cited: ‘What is “fundamentalism “ about Hinduism please?’ I considered persons, not religions. One sign of fundamentalism is the depreciation of other religions, and so does Maria fiercely and completely. In politics, this mindset is called ideology, mostly the one praising socialism/communism.
“Are Christian and Muslim nations YES … ” Another critique, a semantique one. OK is a confirming response (to a question), like YES. So I substituted OK by YES to show that this sentence is semantically nonsense.
The same, as written already, in the philosophical realm. Most Western nations are at the same time Christian nations and not. The history, the customs weigh heavy, but they are not theocracies.
In Bosnia and Herzegovina, former part of Yougoslavia, Europe, West, the Bosniaks are by majority Muslims. Hence is it a Muslim state?
The traditional philosophy/religion of China is Confucianism. Currently, the Communist party is ruling. Is China therefore a Confucianist Communist state? (P.S.: Christians in the underground).
What it is a nonsense is that minorities rule a country by the means of giving them priority in the laws, or having different laws to apply depending whether the person belongs to a religion or to another, instead of applying uniform laws for all and priority for the ones that really need it, disregarding his or her religion. Happening in India.
What it is a nonsense is for instance that the a nation whose heart is fully Hindu whether they like it or not, has to suffer in its own heart the stabbing that for Hindu sentiments means to kill its Mother cow just for the sake of the palate of some. Happening in India.
Example of a Catholic nation and its functioning: mine itself (Spain) when I was born and before: everybody had to be baptised and forcibly keep a Christian name, which of course amounts to everybody born in Spain counting in the figures of the Christian flock whether they were convinced or not by this religion. Add to this the conversion abroad through the Christian Missions and you will get the (injustly counted) major religion in the world by number of followers.
Example of a Hindu nation: India in the past, when, being Hindu majority, gave shelter to different minorities without imposing them to convert to Hinduism. See Parsis, Jews persecuted everywhere else found shelter in India and could continue with their religion without being harassed and forced to convert to Hinduism. Christians and Muslims despite HAVING INVADED India in the past,
and having shed rivers of blood among Hindus, specially Muslims who also killed Christians, have a nation of their own now, with the passage of generations, in which they can freely practice their religion (India). And still some of them dare to call the ones who gave them shelter “saffron, right-wing and communals”
This is a main difference: Christians and Muslims seek to convert anybody else. History proves it. Hindus respect everybody else´s religion, unlike Abrahamic religions. This is the gist of what Maria is talking about, if I am not wrong.
Now pls, feel free to correct my English. I will get an English class for free! 🙂
Brilliantly stated Maria. Really well argued.
Dear Madam, If a non Hindu reads one of your many articles on Hinduism, he would definitely introspect. If he is the one in search of truth, he will read the other articles also before going to libraries. Once he feels to go in depth he will become a satellite to libraries.
Bullshit. U seem to be a Mulla undercover with Hindu name. It has to be a Hindu nation. There is every chance that you are a Soul prostitute.
You can’t convince people with ignorance.
Well summarized. Perhaps others cannot understand or digest what you have summarized. How can one expect to understand the article by @mariawirth1. Difficult.
You know one thing, German language is evolved from Sanskrit.
Thank you sister, for understanding our problems, so called peseudo seculars are the biggest problem for this nation
Simply beautiful and simple and logic with facts .
i wonder what your “nope” refers to.
Further, instead of saying, “indo-european languages are all derived from PIE”, (which looks like a fact) it would be more correct to say that there is a theory which claims this, but there are no hard and fast proofs.
Ancient history keeps changing with every new archeological find. for example, now there is an indication that humans came over 100,000 years earlier to America than so far believed.
we might be better off if we trust the Rishis who mentioned huge time cycles. so far the Rishis have never been proven wrong, including “the world is maya”.
they are not talking about language
nope.
indo-european languages are all derived from proto-indo-european base language from which sanskrit (the progenitor to hindusthani languages arises) but proto-germanic language arises from P.I.E. also. separately but german didn’t come from sanskrit.
Germanic- German
/ | -Danish
it goes P.I. E Dutch etc.
|
Sanskritham – Rajasthani
Marathi etc.
Agree with you, thanks
What the common man of this country wants is food to eat everyday to fill his/her stomach, a shelter to live in, health, love and affection of people around.
Philosophizing about religion is like playing mental gymnastics. One can go on and on, without end. It can fill pages and pages of blogs, but leads nowhere. Everyone has their own viewpoint, and no viewpoint is ever complete and whole. The debates never conclude, but can keep confusing people.
By leaving religion and naming of what it represents and stands for aside, we can, instead focus on living in the present moment. Life will be more joyful, unburdened by distractions.
Naming not only puts a boundary around which you name, it also corrupts. People get struck with the name, and not see the deeper significance of the thing that the name actually points too. People hold on to the name tightly as they are fearful of seeing what lurks beneath it. Because what lies beneath it is very deep, and they are unable to fathom the depth. So, they create their own theories of what the name represents and stands far, and impose it on others, as it gives them power and authority.
The common man on the street and the intelligent men and women of this country want none of this nonsense. So, please stop calling us names.
The following is a reply by Maria Lozano, which for some inexplicable reason did not get posted. So I post it for her:
Even Vivekananda said that we need first to feed the stomachs of the poor and only afterwards give them philosophy.
But this is a blog, and in it, the author and the commentators give our views on the topics we are talking about. In my view, yours would be the ideal approach in an ideal world, which is not real, in which everybody would respect other´s way of understanding life without interfering or trying to impose one´s own views.
This is not the world we are living in, and we have to handle our interrelations in the world we are living in: in it, Abrahamic religions try to impose themselves over non-Abrahamic ones because of their need of converting everyone into their fold. For counteracting this, we as Hindus should reinforce our Hindu identity, That openness and yearning for non-boundaries of that ideal world which many Hindus have, has been used and abused by others who do not want this type of ideal world but a Muslim world or a Christian world.
The need for names and self-definitions, as well as names and definitions for others, therefore, is one of the tools we Hindus have to protect Dharma. Dharma is eternal, no doubt, but if we do not protect it now, in the future Hindus will be confined to practise it secretly and hidden, like it is already happening in places like Bangladesh and Pakistan, just because of the advancement of the Abrahamic religions.
Mrs. Wirth juxtaposes ‘Christian and Muslim nations’ and an imagined Hindu nation. As I have outlined, it is wrong to think of the West as consisting of ‘Christian’ nations. The only nation which may been called something like a Christian nation or theocracy in the 20th century, was Spain under dictator Franco. Not surprising, that she is of Spanish origin.
The only Non-Hindu religion in India of importance is Islam. Wirth does not specifically address Islam, but nearly every religio-political question there is governed by it.
Here a revealing essay, written by Syrian-German professor Bassam Tibi, Muslim himself and researcher on Islam, automatically translated from https://bazonline.ch/ausland/europa/kein-taugliches-modell-fuer-europa/story/26828628:
“The Indian model of pluralism of religions in a secular state is in danger. India is the largest democracy outside the West; there is also the Islamic minority with 217 million people, the largest of its kind in the world. For some months there has been unrest and violence between Hindus and Muslims in India.
This raises fears of earlier times dating back to 1947, when Greater India was divided into an Islamic conservative state, Pakistan, and a secular core India. Pakistani and other Muslims call secular India a Hindu India because 60 percent of the resident population is Hindu. This is an omission because India is a secular nation state by constitution.
I have been able to study these issues through several stays in India over the past twenty years. I experienced India positively as a haven of peace between all religions. All world religions are represented there. Can Europeans learn from India? Does the Islamic minority in India provide a model for Europe?
In India, after the electoral victory of the Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) in 2014, a discussion has been sparked that continues today. This was especially noted internationally by the New York Times, which published an article on August 18, entitled “Fears of Dividing the Country Are Back.” It recalls the hate speech of Islamic Muslim League fanatics who fought against a unified India in the 1940s arguing that Muslims could retain their minority identity only in their own state.
With that they had success: The land was divided. However, under Gandhi and Nehru, the Congress Party fought for cultural diversity and religious pluralism, not for a state with religious legitimacy. This was done by the Muslims at the time, and this is what the fundamentalist BJP is doing today, who does not forgive the Muslims for dividing up India. The result is that Muslims think of a second division.
This awakens memories of the bloody conflicts of 1946/47. They ended with the division of the multi-ethnic, multi-religious and multi-cultural Greater India into two states. Over the past decade, Indian Muslims have started to segregate themselves.
The Indian Ramachandra Guha has pointed out in the Financial Times that Indian Muslims are using the demonstrative burqa cover for their desire to separate themselves in a redistribution of India. There has never been such a concealment of women in India before.
Violent acts of militant Hindus
Europeans still do not seem to have grasped that the Islamic headscarf is an expression of civilizational demarcation with the consequence of self-segregation. The headscarf has nothing to do with freedom of religion.
The first consideration in this context is whether believers of non-Reformed Islam can live peacefully with other religions in a religious pluralism. Or is it fair to turn the question around and uncritically accept the Islamic claim that Islam is a “religion of peace” and on this basis make the assumption that the Hindus are to blame for the current crisis situation?
The claim put forward in this question finds support in the fact that India today is constitutionally and culturally no longer secular (as the spirit of the founders of secular India, Gandhi and Nehru, provided) because it is ruled by a Hindu fundamentalist party , the BJP. However, this must not distract from the fact that Islam did not come to India as a religion of peace. Muslims forced the conversion and turned Hindu temples into mosques. These facts are used today in BJP propaganda against Muslims.
I am a Muslim myself. Here, however, I write as a neutral scientist and admit that the governing party BJP is anti-Islamic and tacitly tolerates attacks by the Hindu mob on Muslims. However, I would not go so far as to share the assumption that India is becoming more secularized. The secular constitutional state and its constitution are firmly anchored in India. Nevertheless, I must admit that the secular Indian model of democracy has failed to integrate Indian Muslims (13 to 15 percent of the resident population) as citizens.
Today in power, the BJP hides many acts of violence by militant Hindus against Muslims. However, the fact that Muslims feel that they are a minority victim as a collective distracts from the fact that their leaders have contributed significantly to the current malady and indirectly to the rise of the BJP.
Previously, India was ruled by the secular Congress Party. The BJP was a rudimentary movement on the periphery of politics. If Muslims in India pity themselves as a discriminated minority (as they do in Europe, by the way) and, mind you, their leaders do so systematically and with calculation, then they always pursue the goal of being able to demand special rights. They want to enforce political demands. These include the status of a religious community with tax claims, participation in committees and an institutionalization of self-segregation in parallel societies.
Sharia law enforced
In India, the leaders of the Islamic minority succeeded in enforcing Sharia law in this way. As part of this pattern, the Congress Party made concessions to the Indian Islamic community with the result that the secular Congress Party was weakened in favor of radical Hinduism. The BJP capitalized on it and received the majority of Hindus’ votes as an alternative to the Congress Party; now she rules the country. How could this happen?
India is a secular country and has a secular right that applies to all; but the Muslims have effectively forced the Congress government to act unconstitutional and to allow Sharia law for the Muslims. The state has damaged Indian Muslims by undermining its secularity. This must not happen in Europe. Here Europeans can learn from India.
This is not a local Indian affair; it has relevance for the whole world, especially for Europe. Muslims and their world of Islam today comprise two billion of the world’s seven billion people. Muslims and their civilization are in a crisis that affects the entire world. American author John Brenkman rightly writes about a “geo-civil war of Islam” as the manifestation of this crisis.
Striking parallels
The violence in India has increased so much that some again ask the partition question of 1947 as a way to a “solution”. India’s first Prime Minister, Jawaharlal Nehru, was a Hindu, but he defined India as secular and modern, not considering the Indians as a Hindu nationalist collective, regardless of their religion, as the BJP does today. The following statement by Nehru about Muslims should be quoted here: “We have a Muslim minority […]. Whatever the provocation from Pakistan […] and horrors inflicted on non-muslims there, we have got to deal with this minority in a civilized manner. ”
What is this civilized way? Nehru writes: “Do Muslim majorities in Pakistan, for example, deal with non-Muslim minorities in such a civilized manner? I have to say that. Similar to the AKP in Turkey, which tries to exploit some five million European Turks as a foreign policy instrument, Pakistan is working with the Islamic minority in India. The parallel is striking.
The division of India into an Islamic and a secular state in 1947 was the result of a religious and very bloody conflict 70 years ago. The timeliness of this item is not limited to India, but is relevant to the entire world. Both in the positive and in the negative, the Islamic minority in India serves as a model for Islamic minorities throughout the world.
Two decades ago, Leiden University in the Netherlands conducted a project on Islam and Muslims in Europe where I was a team member and had the task of answering the following question: Can the Islamic minority in India be a model for Europe?
To date, there are patterns of Muslim self-perception as a minority. As a minority, Muslims cultivate a kind of self-pity. In this context, the accusation of Islamophobia has emerged as a self-fulfilling prophecy. When Muslims have problems, they are always to blame. This is not only whiny, but also instrumental: So get hold of Islamic officials special rights. They have successfully done so in India by enforcing Sharia law and justice. The side effect is the weakening of the secular Congress Party and the strengthening of the BJP. In Europe, Islam officials are strengthening right-wing extremists by giving them an unwarranted argument.
Being victims of others is the self-perception of Muslims; but as soon as they are in the majority, they oppress the others. Examples are found in the Arab world (eg Egypt, Sudan and Iraq) and in the extra-Arab world (such as Indonesia, Malaysia and Nigeria). Anyone who objects to this Islamic rule of discrimination against other religions is attacked with the accusation of Islamophobia.
Even more serious is the attempt by Saudi Arabia and Pakistan to enforce an “international right against blasphemy” at the United Nations in order to silence Islam critics. This must not succeed.
Escape to Pakistan
Historically, India formed a unity until its partition into India and Pakistan in 1947. Separatism came from the Muslim effort to form its own religiously-determined state. Until 1907 Hindus and Muslims worked together in 1885 founded National Congress. Muslims then seceded in 1907, and one year earlier Muslim activists founded the Muslim League, a fanatics organization that raised separatist demands on a religious basis. She began to fight with open force for a state of Muslims in India. In 1947 they reached their destination; Thousands of Indian Muslims fled to Pakistan hoping for a better life.
The opposite has happened: these Islamic immigrants are discriminated against in Pakistan as a minority to this day.
How did Islam come to India? He reached India in the 11th century and was able to establish himself by the fact that lower Hindu caste by conversion to Islam found an escape from discrimination.
What do we learn from the Indian example for Europe? If Europeans allow immigrant Muslims to form a collective, live in Sharia law in their parallel societies and claim Islamocracy for themselves in the context of multiculturalism, then one can forget about the integration project. Muslims can only be integrated as individuals into a secular community, but not as collectives, just as Germans – without any knowledge of Islam – operate to madness in the framework of the German Islam Conference.
As in India, the implementation of Sharia law as a right for Muslims gave the BJP Hindu fundamentalists tailwind, similar things in Europe will serve right-wing forces and their emergence as mass parties, democratic parties should not consider a change of course and continue – like the Congress Party in India – fail in dealing with Islam officials.
Destruction of achievements
We need to distinguish two phenomena: the reality of Muslim Islam tacitly aspiring to Islam, and the right-wing extremist forces exploiting it to fuel fear of Islamization and incite against Muslims. Democrats must equally democratically tackle both trends. Europeans must distinguish between Islamization as part of the Islamic Da’wa and Islamization as right-wing radical propaganda.
How is this reality perceived in the prevailing narrative in Europe today? Postmodern multiculturalists have abandoned the European concept of the individual in favor of the definition of cultural and religious collectives as minorities with their own rights in their own parallel society.
Postmodernists are destroying all the central European civilization achievements of modern times and opening the doors of Europe to an Islamic migration of peoples by confusing open society with open borders. This whole issue makes India and its Islamic minority model a warning, not one of compliance.
So what can Europeans learn from the case of India?
The Islam diaspora in Western Europe has grown to around 30 million Muslims today. By the middle of this century, it should be 50 to 60 million. Only through a Europeanization of Islam and the Europeans’ insistence on their image of the individual as a citizen and not as a member of a collective can Muslims living in Europe be integrated into Europe.
The resistance against this democratic solution comes not only from Islamic officials who want to enforce Sharia, but also – and above all – from European postmodernists who engage in self-denial. In the BaZ of February 20, 2017, therefore, I called both parties «enemies of Europe».”
Honestly, how can you be a Muslim? Why did you convert to that despicable ”religion”?
If you thought that I am a Muslim, you did not at all understand the text. Or I have written it badly, or the author of the cited/translated text, who is a Muslim, but a Westernized one.
Confusing blog website. I posted an answer, probably it appears at the wrong place.
Great Views
Here another essay which sheds light onto the problem religion – politics – Hinduism – Islamism.
Again consider and forgive please the machine translation from German.
To a certain extent, one could replace Muslim by Hindu/Hinduist, Islam by Hinduism and Europe by India.
For instance: “European societies are secular, and the public realm should remain secular accordingly. However, the organized Islam federations do not accept this stipulation.” “The Indian society is secular, and the public realm should remain secular. However, the organized Hinduist parties do not accept this stipulation”.
So take care. And again, Maria: The Western nations are NOT ‘Christian nations’. There is a Christian history and background, though.
“In recent years, a term has been coined for people who do not understand religion and its return to politics: religious analysts. Islam is an example here; this is a belief that deserves respect in the context of religious freedom, but at the same time it is also in a process of politicization, out of which Islamism grows.
Here, vigilance is required over religion. The double game of Islam officials makes it difficult to deal with the phenomenon. This double play looks like this: Where Muslims live as a minority, these functionaries pity their community in the victim role, as in India and in Europe. These officials then make political demands for Islamic minorities. But this is different where Muslims are in the majority because they oppress, discriminate and silence the minorities of other religions without restraint.
Non-Muslims are discriminated
Anyone who objects to this is accused of Islamophobia. I would like to give an example for this. The Neue Zürcher Zeitung correspondent in Kuala Lumpur wrote about it in the following text: “Religion, d. H. Islam is more present than ever in Malaysia’s society and has permeated politics almost dogmatically in recent years. Malay Muslims … are increasingly being understood as the real citizens. To all others, mainly Chinese and Indians, the fluidity of immigrants or even strangers is clinging to them. “Chinese and Hindu minorities are discriminated against in Malaysia even though they are citizens of the country; but they are denied citizenship, because they are not Muslims. I can hardly imagine the outcry if Europeans ever did the same with Muslims. Similar to Malaysia, Muslims are behaving towards Christian minorities in the Middle East, especially in Iraq and Egypt, where Christian worship is burned down.
The Swiss-American John Eibner, who heads Christian Solidarity International (CSI), has organized a series of lectures on this topic in Zurich over the past few years. The book “The Future of Religious Minorities in the Middle East” was published in 2017 , I am one of the co-authors of this book, claiming that Middle Eastern Muslims always disregard the rights of other minorities. This article follows and summarizes the thoughts that I have expressed during recent months in public lectures in Vienna, Bishkek, Lisbon, Praga, Poznan, Warsaw and Prague on the example of Europe in the Age of Migration World of Islam. Even Muslim, I worry about the future of Europe as an “island of freedom in an ocean of tyranny,” as the philosopher Max Horkheimer once described.
Instrumentalization of religion
Immigrant Muslims bring the problems of their countries to Europe, and Europeans are banning an open discussion on this issue. It is not about religiosity, that is a fundamental right, but about the practice of a political religion, with the help of which social, economic and political problems are articulated. I call this circumstance religionization of politics. To illustrate, for example: It does not succeed to integrate the immigrant Muslims in Europe. On this basis, parallel societies emerge in which “ethnic poverty” dominates: immigrant Muslims feel victims of Europeans; they use religion to deliberately misinterpret this ethnic poverty as a result of discrimination against their religion. That extends to the use of force against “infidels” in the middle of Europe.
In my mentioned lectures and public discussions about this topic, I often came across the objection that religion would be instrumentalized here. It is claimed that the Islamic legitimacy of violence has nothing to do with Islam and so on. These people do not seem to know the classic work of Eric Hofer, The True Believer. The true believer is a believer who interprets his fanaticism as part of his religious beliefs. It is cynical to suggest that a fanatical Islamic suicide bomber exploits religion and pays for it with death.
Little hope
I would like to avoid two misunderstandings at this point. First, even Muslim, I have no objection to the people of Islamic faith who come to Europe. What I object to is the political religion and the beliefs that they bring with them. The second misconception is the complaint of immigrants’ right to bind their religion to politics. European societies are secular and the public sphere should be secular. H. religion neutral, stay. However, the organized Islam federations do not accept this demand.
May we talk freely about this? The Berlin Professor Herfried Münkler forbids this, because otherwise – so his words – a “Islamization of the debate” would arise. Anyone who does this and does not stick to it will be put in the right corner. I am a liberal Muslim and refuse to submit to this self-censorship. That would be a “submission,” a capitulation to the Islamists.
Let us pronounce it uncensored, as I do in my book “Islamic History and German Islamic Studies”: In it I observe a migration of peoples from the world of Islam to Europe. Following the publication of the book, the US Pew Research Center published solid statistics on the increase in the proportion of Islamic populations in the European resident population on November 30 last year, forecasting scenarios by 2050. The Pew expects Muslims to share 20% of the total population of the country of welcome culture (Germany) in 2050; in other European countries, the proportion is 14 to 16 percent lower.
On this basis, I have designed two scenarios. Scenario A: If the multicultural ideology wins, immigrant Muslims form parallel societies claiming minority rights; H. they are not integrated. Scenario B: Muslims, on the other hand, are integrated as citizens in the sense of the Citoyen, they represent a European Islam and thus have a share in a European leading culture. Under the current conditions, the positive scenario seems to be alien to reality; the officials of the organized Islam federations do not want this.
The overarching framework of the problem referred to means that, following a successful secularization in Europe, religion returns to politics today and promotes decalcification. Two religious sociologists can be cited as authorities, on the one hand Max Weber, who interprets secularization as a “disenchantment of the world” and praises it as a European achievement; argues Harvard’s sociologist Daniel Bell, who speaks of the “Return of the Sacred”. There are not only economic, political and social conflicts. There are also value conflicts.
As far as our topic is concerned, we mean the value conflicts that arise from the incompatibility of secular and religious values. Europeans understand z. For example, under right, what the democratically elected parliaments legislatively determine; Muslims, by rights, understand Sharia as revealed by Allah. The conflict between the two understandings of law is a classic conflict of values. And this is not solvable. Either an open society is secular or it is subordinated to Sharia law. The latter demand the Islam functionaries in the name of minority rights.
One problem is that religion is bound not only to politics but also to culture. Together with the immigration from the world of Islam, and in general through migration, identity politics is pursued. For Muslims, cultural identity is defined religiously, and migrants see themselves as a collective with minority rights. To put it clearly: The identity policy is not the individual citizen, but the collective in the center.
The understanding of ethnicity
The Muslims form a religious community that has nothing to do with ethnicity. So there are Muslims who are blond and others who are dark-skinned. Illegal migration and the formation of parallel societies create an Islamic collective that is ethnically opposed to non-Muslims, contrary to their previous understanding of ethnicity.
…
https://bazonline.ch/das-beste-aus-der-zeitung/die-rueckkehr-der-religion-in-die-politik/story/28351918
There should be more people like Maria Wirth who understand Hinduism correctly. They can spread this knowledge for the benefit of humanity
Noone can ever understand any BIG religion or culture ‘correctly’. Especially Hinduism, which is a conglomerate of religions. Hinduism does not have much attractiveness worldwide. According to the Pew Research center, only 30’000 will convert to Hinduism during 2015 – 2020, about the as many who want to leave it. That is even smaller than the 40’000 to the ‘small tribe religion’ Jewism, not to speak of the 500’000 to 5 million who switch to Buddhism, Islam or Christendom.
why cant we all mind our own business and spend time to reform our self.when each of the nations worldwide do whatever they have to,to be the best they can be,india minds its own business.this should be a lesson to the rest of the world.
India never interferes in any other countries internal affairs, the fact is that our country was invaded by foreign forces for 1000 years and the invaders converted our people by force those who resisted were killed.When foreign forces invaded our country our kings big and small were fighting the foreign invaders the length and breadth of our country.
India never invaded any country or converted their people in to Hindus that is the Hall mark of our great nation we Hindus are born secular we believe in debates example The Classic Debate Between Mandana Misra And Adi Shankara. We Hindus do not have to listen to lectures of others on secularism we have atheist among us we accept them Christianity or Muslims do not accept atheist we are tolerant by nature we indulge in debates with others who disagree with our religion or our Vedas.
Tolerant religions are also tolerant against sufferings, injustice and evil, ‘intolerant’ ones are not. Why should an alliance not fight against devilish dictators like Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Saddam Hussein, Gaddhafi, Assad? India is just too disorganised to invade overseas.
There is only one religion which can be called tolerant. And it is Hinduism. And yes Hinduism is not an organized religion. It did never force its philosophy on others or on its own people. That is the reason everyone in Hinduism is acceptable with different Gods and no Gods. Hindu Kings fought many evil Kings of their own and from other’s land who came to loot our land. And why a country needs to invade other land. This thinking is itself devilish and give birth to devils like Hitler which is what is the gift of West to the world. India’s gift to the world is Yoga, Mahatma Buddha, Gandhi and rational thinking which is the origin of Mathematics and Science.
But you have to agree that Sanskrit is a language which was not evolved but scientifically invented out of cobwebs of Indian languages and its grammar is very scientific
Kudos for writing this article! In my opinion, this is a fairly accurate representation of the greatness of Sanatana Dharma and the differences between this way of life that promotes thinking and analysis and other religions which do not.
My only wish is that you hadn’t succumbed to statements like Sanskrit is “the most perfect, dignified, powerful language on earth and which is useful even for NASA” which sound fantastic for tradition-favouring Indians, but which don’t make much sense (what does it even mean for a language to be dignified or powerful?) and aren’t even true (the only reference to Sanskrit in NASA occurred more than 30 years ago by a researcher, and the gist of what he’s saying is available here: https://www.aaai.org/ojs/index.php/aimagazine/article/view/466).
Hahahahahaha. Who according to you are the fathers (plural, do you even have some sense to think what it means) of THIS nation?
And can you please tell me about the directives or whatever they are that you are blabbering about? Can you think deeply and tell me ‘On what basis did the so Called FATHERS of this nation arrive at such directives’??????
Can the fathers of some Islamic nations also arrive at similar directives on Secularism?
You say the Indian Independence movement was not about creating a Hindu nation?? Yeah yeah, sounds right! It was about creating a Muslim nation by breaking a secular nation into two!
Sounds good! Very liberal views! Keep it going!
Yours,
A radical Hindutva proponent.
Very well said
you are totally ignorant of her entire writing in the sense that you’re entirely saying what her view is in a tone of opposition!
Wow! This is very intelligent of you to come up with such a neat work!
Namaste
Thanks for being in support of Bharat
“CHRISTIANITY IS NOT ANY RELIGION : BUT AN ORGANISED CRIMINAL MAFIA GANG :
Christianity specifically COMMANDS to MURDER those who don’t Follow Jesus. It acts more like an Organised Criminal Mafia Gang of Looters, Thugees, Plunderers, Murderers, Rapists, Pedos, who have No Mercy towards those who don’t Stand with them……
BIBLE COMMANDS TO KILL :
1. KILL ADULTERERS : LEV 20:10
2. KILL ALL WITCHES : EXO 22:18
3. KILL BLASPHEMERS : LEV 24:14
4. KILL FALSE PROPHETS : ZECH 13:3
5. KILL FORTUNE TELLERS : LEV 20:27
6. KILL ANYONE WHO SINS : EZEK 18:4
7. KILL THE CURIOUS : 1 SAM 6:19-20
8. KILL GAYS : LEV 20:13
9. KILL GAYS : ROM 1:21-32
10. KILL ALL NON HEBREWS : DT 20:16-17
11. KILL SONS OF SINNERS : ISAIAH 14:21
12. KILL NON BELIEVERS : 2 CHRON 15:12-13
13. KILL WHO CURSES GOD : LEV 24:16
14. KILL CHILD HITTING PARENTS : EX 21:15
15. KILL CHILD DISOBEYING PARENTS : DT 21:20
16. KILL THOSE WHO WORK ON THE SABBATH : EX 31:15
17. KILL DISOBEDIENT CHILD : EX 21:17
18. KILL DISOBEDIENT CHILD : MK 7:10
19. KILL STRANGERS NEAR CHURCH : NUM 1:48-51
20. KILL ALL MALES AFTER WINNING BATTLES : DT 20:13
21. KILL THOSE WHO CURSE PARENTS : LEV 20:9
22. KILL NON VIRGIN BRIDE : DT 22:21
23. KILL WHO WORSHIP FALSE GODS : NUM 25:1-9
24. KILL WHO DON’T OBSERVE SABBATH : EX 31:14
25. KILL EVERYONE IN A TOWN THATS WORSHIPS OTHER THAN JESUS : DT 13:13-16 /
“
What it is a nonsense is that minorities rule a country by the means of giving them priority in the laws, or having different laws to apply depending whether the person belongs to a religion or to another, instead of applying uniform laws for all and priority for the ones that really need it, disregarding his or her religion. Happening in India.
What it is a nonsense is for instance that the a nation whose heart is fully Hindu whether they like it or not, has to suffer in its own heart the stabbing that for Hindu sentiments means to kill its Mother cow just for the sake of the palate of some. Happening in India.
Example of a Catholic nation and its functioning: mine itself (Spain) when I was born and before: everybody had to be baptised and forcibly keep a Christian name, which of course amounts to everybody born in Spain counting in the figures of the Christian flock whether they were convinced or not by this religion. Add to this the conversion abroad through the Christian Missions and you will get the (injustly counted) major religion in the world by number of followers.
Example of a Hindu nation: India in the past, when, being Hindu majority, gave shelter to different minorities without imposing them to convert to Hinduism. See Parsis, Jews persecuted everywhere else found shelter in India and could continue with their religion without being harassed and forced to convert to Hinduism. Christians and Muslims despite HAVING INVADED India in the past,
and having shed rivers of blood among Hindus, specially Muslims who also killed Christians, have a nation of their own now, with the passage of generations, in which they can freely practice their religion (India). And still some of them dare to call the ones who gave them shelter “saffron, right-wing and communals”
This is a main difference: Christians and Muslims seek to convert anybody else. History proves it. Hindus respect everybody else´s religion, unlike Abrahamic religions. This is the gist of what Maria is talking about, if I am not wrong.
Now pls, feel free to correct my English. I will get an English class for free!
Thanks for using my comment. You seem to agree so much till the extent of being Spanish yourself too!! 😉 Because you have not even change a word of what, for the good and for the bad, came through my fingers.
Namaste,
Sorry, It was my mistake
Actually I copy various Posts, and comments which are of my Interest.
I was to copy your comment in my file, but I copied by mistake at this Blog
I hope you forgive me
Though I appreciate the efforts made by you and Maria Wirth towards Hinduism and Bharat.
Hari Om
Nothing to worry about 🙂
Thanks for your appreciation!. But no efforts when Bharat is felt as a Mother, and Dharma as its natural core and spine.
HARI OM
Namaste
Yes,
Bharat is our Mother.
In fact the whole Earth is our Mother
The Whole Nature is our Mother
because they FEED us
Hari Om
Thank you
Wonderfully researched and written. Every Hindi has to read this and take pride about their lineage and heritage. Thank you Maria ma’am. I never miss any of it tweets.
Nice to hear
Thank You for making me proud of my own culture. One Family. One World. Freedom of worshipping and believing. That is what I needed to learn. Thanks a lot.
Namaskaram, and thank you for this article.
Been following your stuff lately.
UK’s PM called it a Christian nation
This is senseless..
Read much? The constitution of India was basically derived from the British India act of 1935.
This act when promulgated, had not even a single Indian in it. And then there was referendum as to whether this was acceptable for the masses.. So in that sense, the COnstitution was as alien as the Brits themselves
Read about the Doctrine of discovery and thr papal bulls of 1493 asking European kings to conquer, exploit or concert all lands not inhabited by non-Christians
Read about the the Goan inquisition ordered by a mass-murderer who you so revere – Francis Xavier
“… Doctrine of discovery and thr papal bulls of 1493 asking European kings to conquer, exploit or concert all lands not inhabited by non-Christians …”
Reminds of Merkel’s ‘bull’ of 2015 to let in all (hundred thousands of) ‘refugees’, mostly of non-christian faith, being rightly so or not, from civil-war torn Syria.
Important, long-effective political decisions are often taken in times of crisis or new developments. In the case of the papal bull:
“The document supported Spain’s strategy to ensure its exclusive right to the lands discovered by Columbus the previous year. It established a demarcation line one hundred leagues west of the Azores and Cape Verde Islands and assigned Spain the exclusive right to acquire territorial possessions and to trade in all lands west of that line. All others were forbidden to approach the lands west of the line without special license from the rulers of Spain.”
The permission or demand to conquer other continents were the result of the ideology. What about Soviet communism urging to ‘revolutionise’ the whole world, with the danger of mutual global extermination by nuclear weapons?
In 1600, Elisabeth I. issued a letter permitting the ‘Governors and Company of merchants of London trading to the East-Indies’ trading with India.Charles II. confirmed in 1661 their privilege, but increased its power to exert civil law, military power and war against the ‘infidels’.
So nothing new, it was just the normal morals then.England had separated itself then from the Roman Catholic church already 100 years ago.
Just spell bound reading this ! What we all think and believe – you have penned it beautifully , infact with more precise details . Kudos to you mam . My humble pranams
Thank you for this comparison of Hindu way of life to the other religions. Loved the conclusion.
Are you a practicing good Christian ? Does a good’ Christians feel obligated to make everyone believe what he believes, if necessary by deceit or force? If yes then he or she can’t be called a good Christian. Maybe you wouldn’t know since you were never a good Christian. Were crusades led to speard the Christian dharma ? Where did you get the information that Vedic philosophy inspired the new scientific discoveries for example in nuclear physics? Does NASA use sanskrit ? A blog with many factual errors and fantasy by a person with limited knowledge. The good Hindu is a like a good Christian who respects and loves other human beings to but a bigot be it from any Dharam is a pain.
Dear Maria,
Thankyou for wonderfully explained the way if Sanatan Dharma. Thankyou. God bless you.
?Dear Maria,
This is my response to this comment. Pls post it on my behalf if it doesnt come:
A good Christian should believe in Jesus as the ONLY SAVIOUR and the ONLY TRUE. Given Jesus is the only true, all the non-Christians are mistaken and it is his duty to contribute to take them out of their error. Be it through missions, or through sheer interaction, the Gospel HAS TO be spread, as this is a core command in the Bible and taken as such by the different Christian denominations. Am I wrong in any of these affirmations? It is well known that Quantum Physics for instance are inspired on Vedas. The scientists themselves acknowledged that they had had a good immersion in Vedic Darshana before arriving at their theories. And further these theories are proven to have reached in their development similar conclusions as the Upanishads had revealed long, long back. A world of mutual respect is an ideal that is not given, as both the Abrahamic religions have the duty to spread their “only truth” and to convert all of the rest of the population. A laymen who is a Christian for instance may not be doing attempts to convert others in his/her daily life. And there is no problem as long as we have that mutual respect. The problem lies in the duty of the Abrahamic religions to conquer the world by sword and deceive if required as they have done throughout the History. And last but not least, a Indian who is not Hindu has to acknowledge that his/her forefathers were, and has to respect his or her Motherland as the land of Hinduism, as we the rest of the Hindus around the world respect Bharath Mata. An Indian who is not Hindu it is obliged to know and acknowledge that s/he might be whatever he wants by the latest tradition of their family, but that his being a Christian comes from CONQUEST AND DISRESPECT of the faith of his/her forefathers. As Christians arrive India not to live in Harmony with Hindus, but TO CONVERT THEM. As it continues to do and will do as long as it exists. A Christian or Muslim Indian should realised that his ancestors where removed from their natural living in sync with the Rtam of nature to the brainwashing of a set of tenets that cannot be proven by dismissing their own Gods and lifestyle. And s/he should realise that only under the Hindu umbrella his converted ancestors could reach up to now as Christians. ________________________________ De: MARIA WIRTH Enviado: sábado, 25 de mayo de 2019 7:38 Para: Maria Lozano Asunto: [New comment] Are Christian and Muslim nations ok and Hindu nations not?
[Boxbe] [http://www.boxbe.com/stfopen?tc_serial=49764097228&tc_rand=1764195214&utm_source=stf&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ANNO_CLEANUP_ADD&utm_content=001] This message is eligible for Automatic Cleanup! (comment-reply@wordpress.com) Add cleanup rule | More info Thomas commented: “Are you a practicing good Christian ? Does a good’ Christians feel obligated to make everyone believe what he believes, if necessary by deceit or force? If yes then he or she can’t be called a good Christian. Maybe you wouldn’t know since you were never “
Thank you!
Even though she skims the surface, not an in-depth persuasion, but she makes legitimate arguments. While accepting her arguments as legit I wouldn’t support the idea of a Hindu Rashtra as it’s too frivolous. The world is undergoing a period of churn. For the end result to happen, the world needs guidance of Indianism which is embedded in Hindu way of life.
Wow, I wonder why others don’t have the same level of intellect. Very well written.
Sunil
I think your last 2 sentences make no sense. We need to judge what is better. The other 2big religions claim they alone are true without any proof whatsoever and thereby divide humanity into right and wrong, us versus them. Hindu Dharma is all-encompassing.
The Hindu religion is based on the the theory/ philosphy detailed by the Sages in the Vedas, Puranas, Upnishads etc. ,besudes the mythological figures like Rama, Krishna etc . , where as all other religions are based on.mythology only. Mohammed said this or Isa said this, but they donot have any philosiphical base. Rama or Krishna did explain the religion but with the basic principles explained in the religious books, like Vedas, Upnishads etc..
This does not mean in any manner tgat Hindu religion is better. All religions are equal as are all humans.
Completely agree with your description of Hinduism and what an “ideal” Hindu nation would look like. But unfortunately the whole “Hindutva” brigade has reduced it to an extreme intolerant and exclusive ideology which is the sad truth of the present BJP regime under Modi. I am a minority (a Parsi Zoroastrian) in India and have never felt like one up until now. We are proud of the secular fabric of this country and that cannot and should not be threatened. For example why is cow slaughter and beef consumption banned? If Hinduism is so inclusive, why forcefully dictate to people what they can or cannot eat? My dear lady, not sure if you live in India or are an observer from without, but it’s these handful of people in power with their extremist.thoughts and ideologies which is giving this peaceful religion/way of life called Hinduism a bad name. And this intolerant attitude has percolated down to the grassroots where the common man on the street is emboldened into taking law into his own hands if he feels that anything goes against his “Hindu” thought. That’s why a Hindu Rashtra is not looked upon kindly in today’s India.
This is posted on behalf of Maria Lozano in reply to Thomas:
A good Christian should believe in Jesus as the ONLY SAVIOUR and the ONLY TRUE. Given Jesus is the only true, all the non-Christians are mistaken and it is his duty to contribute to take them out of their error. Be it through missions, or through sheer interaction, the Gospel HAS TO be spread, as this is a core command in the Bible and taken as such by the different Christian denominations. Am I wrong in any of these affirmations?
It is well known that Quantum Physics for instance are inspired on Vedas. The scientists themselves acknowledged that they had had a good immersion in Vedic Darshana before arriving at their theories. And further these theories are proven to have reached in their development similar conclusions as the Upanishads had revealed long, long back.
A world of mutual respect is an ideal that is not given, as both the Abrahamic religions have the duty to spread their “only truth” and to convert all of the rest of the population. A laymen who is a Christian for instance may not be doing attempts to convert others in his/her daily life. And there is no problem as long as we have that mutual respect. The problem lies in the duty of the Abrahamic religions to conquer the world by sword and deceive if required as they have done throughout the History.
And last but not least, a Indian who is not Hindu has to acknowledge that his/her forefathers were, and has to respect his or her Motherland as the land of Hinduism, as we the rest of the Hindus around the world respect Bharath Mata. An Indian who is not Hindu it is obliged to know and acknowledge that s/he might be whatever he wants by the latest tradition of their family, but that his being a Christian comes from CONQUEST AND DISRESPECT of the faith of his/her forefathers. As Christians arrive India not to live in Harmony with Hindus, but TO CONVERT THEM. As it continues to do and will do as long as it exists. A Christian or Muslim Indian should realised that his ancestors where removed from their natural living in sync with the Rtam of nature to the brainwashing of a set of tenets that cannot be proven by dismissing their own Gods and lifestyle. And s/he should realise that only under the Hindu umbrella his converted ancestors could reach up to now as Christians.
Indian law contains many aspects of Hindu dharma, this is to be expected and is only natural as India has been the country of Hindu’s for so long.
Hindu dharma also roughly translates to law, so there can be no separation of law and religion, otherwise hindu dharma is just an act as people would likely only follow it whenever it suits them.
Secularism is a western invention, it has never been part of India before westerners invaded and neither should it be.
“For example why is cow slaughter and beef consumption banned?”
Read the veda’s or do a simple google search and you’ll find plenty of articles where this is explained. Cows have a special status for various reasons and are protected from harm.
“but it’s these handful of people in power with their extremist.thoughts and ideologies which is giving this peaceful religion/way of life called Hinduism a bad name.”
No, allowing cows to be killed and eaten on hindu land is what would give Hinduism a bad name. Allowing slaughterhouses where violence against animals is the norm is what I would call extremist, not hindu’s punishing those that violate the law.
“And this intolerant attitude has percolated down to the grassroots where the common man on the street is emboldened into taking law into his own hands if he feels that anything goes against his “Hindu” thought. That’s why a Hindu Rashtra is not looked upon kindly in today’s India.”
Hindu dharma does not teach us to be peaceful, inclusive and tolerant at all times, these are western liberal philosophies, not Hindu. You don’t think the weapons held by Hindu gods are just for show? In Hinduism there is ahimsa (non violence) and himsa (violence) and both are to be applied depending on the circumstance.
Bhagavad Gita, which is one of the most important Hindu scriptures, was taught on the battlefield. It is a perfect example of himsa according to Hindu dharma. There is no question of non-violence when dealing with adharma (anti-dharma) adherents, anyone who has read and understood the scriptures would understand that.
If you want to kill and eat cows, go to a country where such anti-dharma practices are allowed. In the current kali yuga (era of darkness) that means the whole rest of the world, so you have more than plenty of places to choose.
India has always been Hindu land with Hindu laws and you should respect them or relocate to a country that fits your non-Hindu lifestyle better.
“Secularism is a western invention, it has never been part of India before westerners invaded and neither should it be.”
It seems only so, because most new developpments came/come from the West. There have certainly been other civilisations which were on the right side of the spectrum theocracy – atheistic/secular state. I think it is best to combine the two aspects: respect the tradition of the main founding religion(s), but don’t get locked into it and don’t make problems, because today the world is open.
“Cows have a special status for various reasons and are protected from harm.”
I think it is Jared Diamond who has explained why cows got sacred in India. A profane reason, like for ‘halal’ precepts and proscriptions introduced first in Jewism and then abolished by Christianity and later reintroduced by Islam.
I hear regularly about harmed, neglected, tortured cows and other animals in India. This week the Swiss TV reported about a lady (Esther Geisser) who takes care there:
https://www.srf.ch/play/tv/reporter/video/esther-geisser-und-die-heiligen-kuehe?id=8d50135f-8c46-41a9-9fef-68ae5924de23
The best known example with Ingrid Newkirk: https://www.animalrahat.com
Let’s think rationally about the difference concernning life and death of the human being vs. the animal:
– the human thinks abouth his future, about death; he might want to see his grandchildren grow up
– the animal lives moment by moment, day by day, is not concerned about the future
Hence death has a different meaning, and putting an end to life is much easier with animals.
In case of sufferings, the human can imagine its end and accept that period. He even accepts a painful treatment like surgery. Sometimes, the suffering is so high that he commits suicide.
https://exit.ch/en/
http://dignitas.ch/index.php?lang=en
Think about the fact that Switzerland is amongst the few most human countries in the world and it
permits nearly solely human euthanasia. Which leads to a ‘death tourism’ from more strict countries.
The animal cannot relativate sufferings, it seems endless and it can hardly commit suicide.
Hence we should apply euthanasia on animals including cows if deemed appropriate.
Now: slaughtering. Nowadays (in fact in the West since about 1850) it is more or less painless possible. Switzerland again led the pack by forbidding ritual slaughtering already in the 1893:
https://hls-dhs-dss.ch/fr/articles/011380/2012-01-11
To sum up: I think it is better to let a cow or any other animal (I see no difference) have a good life and care about it, but to put an immediate end to its life once there is a reason.
We should rather ask always: What is human, what is mercyful (in the view of modern society and technology), and ignore the religious rules if contradicting.
I don’t advocate eating meat, even less to form big farms for that sole purpose.
P.S. Research is nearing the possibility to grow artificial meat. Will Hindous be allowed
to eat such meat which genetically/physilogically identical to cow meat, and will Muslims consider its as halal?
Kudos to your brave and straightforward comment!
Secularism is indeed a Western invention, a response to a Western problem only. It is alien to the Hindu society and it doesn´t fit in there. One needs to understand that being a Hindu involves all aspects of life, from governing or expecting governance in a certain (Dharmic) way, to daily life of an anonymous Hindu. A separation between state and religion or rather Dharma is impossible and it becomes an artificial foreign viewpoint that was useful only in the West.
All your viewpoint responds to that of a westerner`´s or westernised thinking aiming a western society, but doesn´t comply at all with the Hindu ethos. To understand a culture one needs to dive deep in it, put their own glasses and then some ideas will get clarified.
Your comment regarding animals for instance fully responds to a human-centered western thought, no matter how humane it is. Which is not at all the Hindu one. I think it is just the opposite: we should observe the behaviour of the animals and learn many things from them. For Hindus, animals form a part of the whole world family, a especially vulnerable part of our family that should be protected. This is the “human point of view” of the Hindus regarding animals, and especially the cow as a Mother, further and deeper than the western interpretations, for reasons that have been explained by the Hindu tradition itself, and that should be much more heard when we are talking of their own regard of the cow.
And the more spiritual or religious one is that the same One that permeates everything it is present everywhere including of course animals and even a blade of grass.
And sorry but considering euthanasia the result of “one of the few most human countries” would be, at the least, a matter of debate. “Merciful killing” would collide with the Hindu thought in many cases for reasons related to karma. And only in extreme cases could be a matter of consideration, as far as I understand it.
“What is human, what is mercyful (in the view of modern society and technology), and ignore the religious rules if contradicting”, you say. Why the modern society and technology HAS TO be the guideline for our understanding of life? Besides, what exactly IS a modern society and technology? For a Hindu “religious rules” percolate the whole life. They are not meaningless indoctrinations, but meaningful guidelines that help to live life in a meaningful way in full sync with the cosmos. Another reason for which for a Hindu, secularism is an artificial construct. And India is a Hindu country which accepted in its lap other (some of them) alien religions. In pure justice, those are the ones who should adapt to the host, ;-), and not the other way round.
[…] Are Christian and Muslim Nations OK and Hindu nations Not? […]
It’s difficult for the poor to turn down money and other advantage, like schooling for kids, moreover when the missionaries are “nice” take interest in their lives, etc.
Conversion are rampant and they brainwash them against their gods, like they brainwashed us in Europe against our gods.
Even if they lose faith, and there is a good chance, they are likely to become atheists. And look at western society to know the damage…
Mam don’t worry Christian missionaries will be failure in India, we need not to tell others that Hinduism is great, they will discover it, like you discovered it. Hinduism is practised as minority religion in Russia and many people will follow it and now with sadhguru it even more spreading. I saw a channel in YouTube where all sadhguru speeches are translated into Russian language. So it indicates Hinduism is followed by some people in Russia.
In India, a true Hindu who knows about their history can never be converted.
Hey Maria thanks for an eye opening article… inspite of being born Hindus, it is not known to crores of Hindus & never been taught in Indian schools….
Essence of Hinduism put straight but Hindus stand so conditioned to feel inferior that r unable to emphasize their ism like you.
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