For years I did not know what opportunities to practice equanimity I had missed, till I finally got a TV set some 3 years ago. In the beginning, I certainly did not remain calm under all circumstances. What intense emotions in just an hour of listening to panelists on the news channels! However, slowly I learned to sit back. I could admire the quick-wittedness and the amazing ability to talk or rather shout while listening.
These anchors and panelists are no doubt intelligent, nevertheless their choice of topics is often pathetic, and they get some points consistently wrong. One such point is ‘secular’ or ‘secularism’. Since secularism is mentioned daily in Indian media and since it is a western ‘invention’, I would like to put it into perspective:
Contrary to the general perception in India, secular is not the opposite of communal. Communal as such is not objectionable either. It simply means ‘pertaining to a community’. In Germany, elections to local bodies are called “communal elections” (Kommunalwahlen).
Secular means temporal or worldly and is opposite to ‘religious’. Now ‘religious’ in this context refers to Christianity, i.e. to a well-organized, dogmatic religion that claims that it is the sole keeper of the ‘truth’, which God himself has revealed to his Church.
And what is this revealed truth? In short: the human being is born in sin, which dates back originally to Adam and Eve. But fortunately, some 2000 years ago, God had mercy on humanity and sent his only son Jesus Christ to earth to redeem us by dying for our sins on the cross, then rising from the dead and going back to his father up in heaven. However to be able to get the benefit of Jesus’ sacrifice, one must be baptized and become a member of the Church, otherwise one will be singled out for eternal hell on Judgment Day.
Understandably, such claims did not appeal to those who used their brains, but for many centuries they had to keep quiet or risk their lives. The reason was that for long the Church was intertwined with the state, and harsh laws made sure that people did not question the ‘revealed truth’. Heresy was punished with torture and death. Even in faraway Goa, after Francis Xavier called the Inquisition to this colony, unspeakable brutality was committed against Indians. In many Muslim countries till today, leaving Islam is punishable by death.
Significantly, those centuries, when Church and State were intertwined, when the clergy prospered and the faithful sheep suffered are called the dark ages. And the time when the Church was forced to loosen its grip, is called the age of enlightenment, which started only some 350 years ago. Scientific discoveries, which could no longer be brushed under the carpet, played a crucial role for showing the Church her place. Now, more Europeans dared to oppose the stranglehold of religion. Many went to prison for doing so.
Slowly, the idea that reason, and not blind belief in a ‘revealed truth’, should guide society, took root and this lead to the demand for separation between state and Church. Such separation is called secularism. It is a recent phenomenon in the west.
Today, most western democracies are ‘secular’, i.e. the Church cannot push her agenda through state power, though most western democracies still grant Christianity preferential treatment. For example in Germany, the Constitution guarantees that the Christian doctrine is taught in government schools. Further, the Churches have retained special labour laws that make it obligatory for Church employees (alone in Germany over one million) to conform to Christian norms. Nevertheless, the present situation is a huge improvement over the dark ages when one had to pretend to believe unbelievable dogmas.
In India, however, the situation was different. Here, the dominant faith of the Indian people never had a power centre that dictated unreasonable dogmas and needed to be propped up by the state. Their faith was based on insights of the Rishis and on reason, intuition and direct experience. It expressed itself freely in a multitude of ways. Their faith was about trust and reverence for the One Source of all life. It was about doing the right thing at the right time according to one’s conscience. It was about The Golden Rule: not to do to others what one does not want to be done to oneself. It was about having noble thoughts. It was about how to live life in an ideal way.
However, this open atmosphere changed when Islam and Christianity entered India. Indians, who good naturedly considered the whole world as family, were despised, ridiculed and under Muslim rule killed in big numbers only because they were ‘Hindus’ (which is basically a geographical term). Indians did not realise that dogmatic religions were very different from their own, ancient Dharma. For the first time they were confronted with merciless killing in the name of God. Voltaire, who fought the stranglehold of the Church in Europe, had accurately observed, “Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities”.
Guru Nanak left a testimony how bad the situation was, when he cried out in despair: “Having lifted Islam to the head, You have engulfed Hindustan in dread…. Such cruelty they have inflicted, and yet Your mercy remains unmoved…” (Granth Sahib, Mahla 1.360 quoted from Eminent Historians by Arun Shourie).
During Muslim rule Hindus had to lie low for fear of their lives, and during British rule they were ridiculed and despised by missionaries, and cut off from their tradition with the help of ‘education’ policies. Naturally, this took a toll on their self-esteem. In fact, till today, this low self-esteem especially in the English educated class is evident to outsiders, though it may not be so to the persons concerned. Swami Vivekananda’s efforts to give Hindus back their spine did not impact this class of people. Nevertheless, it is a great achievement that Hindu Dharma survived for so many centuries, whereas the west succumbed completely to Christianity and over 50 countries to Islam in a short span of time.
Coming back to secularism. Though Hindu Dharma survived and never dictated terms to the state, ‘secular’ was added to the Constitution of India in 1976. There might have been a reason, as since Independence, several non-secular decisions had been taken. For example, Muslim and Christian representatives had pushed for special civil laws and other benefits and got them.
However, after adding ‘secular’, the situation did not improve. In fact the government seemed almost eager to benefit specifically the dogmatic religions (for which secularism was coined) and occasionally had to be restrained in its eagerness by the courts.
This is inexplicable. Why would ‘secular’ be added and then not acted upon? And the strangest thing: ‘secular’ got a new, specific Indian meaning. It means today: fostering those two big religions which have no respect for Hindus and whose dogmas condemn all of them to eternal hell.
It is a sad irony. Can you imagine the Jews honouring the Germans with preferential treatment instead of seeking compensation for the millions of Jews killed? Yet Islam and Christianity that have gravely harmed Indians over centuries get preferential treatment by the Indian state, and their own beneficial dharma that has no other home except the Indian subcontinent, is egged out. And to top it, this is called ‘secular’!
Obviously Indians have not learnt from the European experience. Hindus have not yet realized the intention of the dogmatic religions, though they say it openly: Finish off Hinduism from the face of the earth. Hindus still ‘respect’ them, though this respect is not and cannot be reciprocated as long as those religions claim that their God wants everyone to worship exclusively Him. Hindus don’t realize that an ideology that uses God as a front does not become sacred, but all the more dangerous.
Media and politicians do their best to muddy the water. They call parties that represent a religious group, ‘secular’, instead of ‘religious;’ which would be the correct term. When the state gives in to demands by the big religious bullies it is also (falsely of course) called ‘secular’. But WHY would the government do this? It clearly plays with fire. Does it want to give its citizens a firsthand experience of what the dark ages were like? In the interest of all Indians it would be wise for the state to simply ignore the powerful, dogmatic religions and focus on all its citizens equally. This means being ‘secular’.
However, western secular states are not role models either. There is a lot of depression, drug abuse, alcohol and people are generally not happy in spite of doing everything to ‘enjoy life’. Here, India has an advantage over the west. Her rishis have left a great heritage of valuable treatises not only dealing with how to live life in an ideal way, but also how to conduct economy, politics, management, etc. If those guidelines are considered, and if India becomes a state based on her ancient dharma, she has good chances to regain the lost glory as the wealthiest and most advanced country in the world whose citizen are open-minded and contented. If not, probably the west discovers this treasure trove and adopts it…..first.
by Maria Wirth
222 Comments
Constant pounding of Hindus in India and abroad with such great educative and informative articles is the need of the hour.
Gradually, the TRUTH of how ureasonable Hindu bashing is going on to destroy Hinduism by its enemies will dawn upon the slumbering Hindus.
That would be the beginning of Hindu India’s revival phase, which has already started.
Maria, I must admit that you are among rarest of rarest people who actually have a perception intelligent enough to know the essence of this very civilization, culture, which the world know by name of Hinduism. and that too you knew all crooked up stories at first and you decided to analyze with an unbiased brain, whats the truth. Please let me know what I can do to further bring the awareness for sake of humanity. I live outside india and whenever I see so many polite people blindly following those dogmatic religions, i talk to myself oh God they have been deceived for centuries.
Amazing writing…thank you.
‘@Prakriti: Dear NRI, I am happy that you are willing take up the project ‘Awake Indians’ (not Hindus – I consider all those follow the Sanatana Dharma are all Indians, for that matter, even most of Muslims and Christians in this country follow our traditions knowingly or unknowingly but claim themselves as true followers of their own religion, for example, mangal sutra, silver ring to toes, tilak on forehead, wearing sari, etc.). What need to be said at this juncture is, make aware of the richness of our religion, tradition, culture, languages, vedas…. etc. as much as possible, as much as you know from your side. Preferably, catch them young. What you are going to be preached is with reference to the rich history we have. We are lost ourselves in the few centuries because of invasion of Christians and Muslims, not because of slenderness of Sanatana Dharma. We as Indians are now really in dormant state and the matter fact, we need more and more Maria like people to awake us. As we are seasoned by British that we accept anything when it is said by foreigners, well here is the chance to our fellow Indians, listen to Maria and awake! Please, listen to our vedas, upanishids, grandhas, epics, etc…etc…
@Maria: Wonderful article just in time. Although, you missed the direction in one or two places but reached the destination cleverly and correctly. Well done Maria.
Please Maria continue your tired-less journey and awake more Indians like me and Prakriti.
thank you for letting us know who we are and where we are from, wish the knowledge percolates to centers of powers and decision makers and hope they get a chance to reflect on it.
Very good article.
So glad to see you write it as it is Maria. Thank you for that. But the dilemma of Hindus in India is that while they pay for other religions’ subsidies from their own pocket to further the hatred for “idolators” in the form of Hajj and what not, they cannot speak the truth as you do unless they are ready to run the risk of being branded as hate mongers.
I am one, a Hindu, and have spoken as you do, only to have invited such wrath from my own community members even when I kept on stressing on the need for harmony, and the urgent utility of logic and reasoning. Well, simply because I am from the so called “upper caste”, made it even worse, and violent.
But I do hope that all the Indians, esp the Hindus, see through the lines of the politicians they elect and ask to be treated equally in the very country of their origin.
Good article ….well done Maria
Dear Mr. Bharat, when we sow neem seed and grow the plant as tree later expect mango from the tree is not a foolish one? That’s exactly what we do when elect leaders through elections. 80% of majority people elect the (most of) leaders who go and act against the majority and we expect them to do good for us. At least neem tree seed though it gives bitter taste but good for health, what these destroyers (I mean the worst politicians) eat our money (as salary and do scam with unaccountable money) and do against us. They are never the less to compare to a snake’s poison (even that is also useful for curing cancer, don’t know how to compare these buggers). Awake Bharat! Start propagate our culture, our tradition, our rich history to the near and dear, to start from and extend further as much as possible, as much as you know.
Amazing article….every Indian should read this.
1.The terms “secular” and “communal” are both not understood properly in Indian political and media discourse and so these terms are pervasively misused. Not merely ignorance is behind this misuse but strong and calculated mischief aimed at any political awakening or action on behalf of Hindu society.
2. The term “secular” was inserted into the Constitution in 1975 by Indira Gandhi, not to restrain any aggressive religious minority demands but to shackle Hindu-centric concerns and issues from being aired. This insertion has helped ONLY the religious minorities and that too by encouraging them to make more and more unreasonable demands. It is noteworthy that the term “secular” is not defined or even described in the Constitution. A direct result is what I mention in para 3 below.
3. Is it not outrageous that (i) a Christian “Father” who is the Principal of a catholic Educational Institution sees fit to exhort his students to vote “secular” ( read, do not vote for BJP) and (ii) Muslims cry hoarse that no Muslim must vote for “communal” parties (read BJP)! Is it not Orwellian hypocrisy that the exclusivist religions –Christianity and Islam–lecture Hindus in India not to be “communal”. Politicians professing to be Hindus, but largely not committed to healthy social harmony and interested only in holding political power in their private interest, have also benefited most by milking the term, “secular”.
4. TV anchors in India are not well read in history of the world or even of India. They are lazy and take the easy route by mouthing populist slogans. The TV talk shows on politics do not enlighten or educate but merely entertain a la Bollywood tinsel.
R.Venkatanarayanan
These lines sum it all :
“Islam and Christianity that have gravely harmed Indians over centuries get preferential treatment by the Indian state, and their own beneficial dharma that has no other home except the Indian subcontinent, is egged out. And to top it, this is called ‘secular’!”
I have read some of Maria Wirth’s articles and they seem to represent balanced perspectives on India in general and Hindus in particular. This is an excellent article. A good attempt at exposing the myth about unfailing use of the word “secular” in denigrating and belittling Hindus by our self-styled pseudo-intellectuals and ultra-liberals in political and other discourses in India.
Maria, you remind of Annie Besant, a great British Indophile which sadly India forgot.
She fought all her life for India & Hindus, but secular infected Hindu politician honoured ‘Mother Teresa’ , a Christian Taliban, a Rottweiler for Vatican with Bharat Ratna’. It sums up the decaying mind of Indians
“Make no mistake; without Hinduism, India has no future. Hinduism is the soil into which India’s roots are struck”
And if Hindus do not maintain Hinduism, who shall save it? If India’s own children do not cling to her faith, who shall guard it? India alone can save India, and India and Hinduism are one.” – Annie Besant ,
Why it is always a non Indian (by birth) standing up for Hinduism and India, while Hindus shy away or oblivious to the danger of Muslim fascism?
You so brilliantly put “Can you imagine the Jews honouring the Germans with preferential treatment instead of seeking compensation for the millions of Jews killed”
Ignore decadent politicians, citizen of India considers persons like you as’ Peoples Bharat Ratna’
Very well written
While the overall tenor of this article is interesting, it conveniently ignores the fact that the word “Hindu” as used here refers to those who were in a relatively advantageous position vis-a-vis caste system. It overlooks the fact that the Hindu society was so divided within itself, with more than 60% kept out side the caste system as untouchables and pancham varnas (considered to be more abominable and disposable than even the four-footed animals), that, that alone caused it to suffer so extensively in the hands of the followers and perpetrators of monotheistic religions. Of course, most netizens still come from the savarna groups, and hence the voice here is that of the online majority.
I never knew things could be so nicely precisely written without fear. While the things mentioned were already known, the writer has put it out in such a manner that the reader can actually visualize all this happening. Take a bow, writer
Good Article ..
Dharmo rakshati ,Rakshitaha.
First of all hat’s off madame!
Excellent study of religion and politics.
Here, I would like to come up with a point. In India there’s some part of population that is not under the influence of any religion. The target of this so called Indian secularism is blind believers just like old Christian era. They still fear the wrath of God.
My point is this secularism/dirty politics is only for getting vote. So Indians should wake up and see it with open eyes. But sadly thats not happening.
Maria … Commendable effort .. here you are like a Mouth Piece of all Indian Hindus who buried THESE feelings deep inside just not to be Tagged as Communal. The best paragraph to sum up and quote . ” It is a sad irony. Can you imagine the Jews honouring the Germans with preferential treatment instead of seeking compensation for the millions of Jews killed? Yet Islam and Christianity that have gravely harmed Indians over centuries get preferential treatment by the Indian state, and their own beneficial dharma that has no other home except the Indian subcontinent, is egged out. And to top it, this is called ‘secular’! How true these words are !
Great Article …love it
Great article! Hinduism is the only cure for India.
great article Maria… Hindus have lost their self esteem…. and it needs to be brought back..
India is definitely not secular, how can India be secular when there are different laws for muslims,christians and hindus. Blasphemy law or the right not to offend or be offensive, these anti freedom laws make India very un-secular.
PS: The Indian flag is not very secular, need to change that also,
Thanks to internet and web, accompanied by hidden and alternative views coming to fore, Hindus r awakening.
Great writing with simplicity and clarity.India is the richest country in the world. that is why christians and muslims cannot keep off it.
[…] and contented. If not, probably the west discovers this treasure trove and adopts it…..first. – Maria Wirth Blog, 2 May […]
Excellent article, Maria. You are enlightening other Indians like me who have unfortunately strayed the wrong h of pure western materialism with no reapect to the great Bharateeya culture. I salute you for your amazing blogs in support of the rich spiritual heritage of Bharat.
Wonderful article and can`t explain my feelings, best article written by a third person or we can say for the betterment, and self evaluation of a v good race.-for some time I was feeling that Congress has since been converted into a mxture of islamic & chritian party which is working against the interests of hindus. Here every talk of benefit at the cost of Hindus to muslims/ chritians is declared as secular and every talk of benefit to Hindus is declared as communal. The persons at the helm of affairs are dedicated chritians and Muslims but have Hindu names and faces( to show the public at large) so as to make fool of simple hearted Hindus. I would like to say thank you very much for doing so much efforts and labour for a race you are not related.
True Indians will be grateful to you. As you have rightly pointed out most politicians do not seem to understand the meaning of the word secular. India is the ultimate source of all spiritual wisdom of the world It is indeed ridiculous to describe India as a secular stage. Hope all Indians understand this. People like you born in some other country are more Indian than many people who are born and brought up here. I thank you from the bottom of my heart.
one wishes the copies of this article is sent to all Dravidian churches/Mosues of Tamil Nadu because it is known N.indian/Goa christians/muslims are amenable to reason as they make use
of their brain power for good whereas TN christians&muslims use their perverted brain power for
destructive divisionism .
I think the concluding line of Maria,author of this wrticle, may happen.
Wonderful research with keen observation. Kudos !!
Maria, thanks for the good read, though would like to see references for secular being added to the constitution in 1976. Nonetheless, just to play the devil’s advocate, in the defense of Muslims and other minorities, they have been discriminated explicitly and implicitly since the independence ( no thanks to the Brits for seeding the intolerance! ), and perhaps they do need some legal precedents in their favor to avoid being targeted.
I understand your anguish…atleast few people like me are with you!
Very satisfying article!….its everytime someone outside india should awaken the dominant community….most hindus are polite and they just carry on with their work,that has become a problem…hopefully everything will change with MODI…thanks Maria!
Mariaji, shath shath pranaam. You are more Indian than any of us here. Articles like this are the need of the hour to awaken the sleeping and confused mass in India.
[…] If not, probably the west discovers this treasure trove and adopts it…..first. by Maria Wirth Indian secularism is not secular ——————————- A commendable article, exposes a lot of myths created in this […]
Very true.thank you for spreading the truth about the reality
This is what i posted on my facebook page, let me cut and paste it…
.Here is my 16 paisa on this. Its the most ridiculous piece of writing i have seen in five years….But there every five years a westerner pops up from the skies and defends everything that is hindu(Francois Gautier was the last one) and every middle class hindu with a facebook account circulates it to their friends. I am a big beleiver in the turkish model which took an ex ottoman state and made it forget its past. All good food goes out of date and it does not matter how good it is in the end it will spoil. The same is true of cultures beyond their shelf life. While it is true our culture has been based on logical deduction somewhat in the past, it also carries with it the past burden of caste and discrimination and division of labor based on incident of birth all of which is very backward. All our literature from that past glorifies all this as well. We are stuck without social evolution because of our glorious past and need a complete break from it while we confine our culture to the museum for our next generations to appreciate and marvel.
Wonderful Article Maria !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This article is the right answer to So called Secular Political Parties & Politicians & most importantly the whole Indian Paid Media !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PLEASE DON’T JUDGE MY RELIGION FROM MY NAME I COULD HAVE IMPERSONATED IT
I would come to the point, If mughal rulers killed Kafir (it means Non Muslims and not an abusive name) then they ruled for around 300 years and there should not have to be a single kafir left in this country, but majority is their
If mughal leaders destroyed temples there should not have been a single temple left
This writer says that most of the benefits are deployed to Muslims and Christianity, but does she know that the worst condition of any religious community is Muslim they belong to lowest income group they have most under weight children
Does she knows that most of the people killed in communal violence is Muslim community
Does she knows that the lowest conviction rate for crimes is of Muslim community and 84% of SIMI accused operatives have been acquitted it all points to that there is being run two different laws are in this country. Even when more people are being killed in maoist attacks in India ( by saying this i do not support any kind of terrorism, Quran says If you kill one innocent person you killed the whole humanity)
I think this writer does not know anything, one thing I can judge is, she has not gained enough knowledge to write an article
‘@Kashif Khan
Do you try to deceive or do you have your knowledge only from mainstream media? You wrote: “Quran says if you kill one innocent person you killed the whole humanity.” And then you write : “one thing I can judge is, she has not gained enough knowledge to write an article.”
Maybe you are not aware: in Quran 5:(27-31) the story of the two sons of Adam is told, where one kills his brother.
Then 5:(32) starts:
“On account of this incident, We ordained for the Children of Israel that whoever kills a person except as a punishment for murder or mischief in the land, it will be written in the book of deeds as if he has killed all the human beings on the surface of the earth, and whoever will save a life shall be regarded as if he gave life to all the human beings …”
It means it is valid only for the Children of Israel, not for the “believers”.
Please don’t cheat. Or if you were ignorant, don’t ‘judge’ me to be ignorant.
I bow my head in humbleness for opening my eyes to what we are …
‘@Kashif Khan
You seem to be a Madrasa educated so called Khan.
Mughal killed as many Hindus, they could and would not have hesitated to kill them all. Even Genghis Khan, who hated and wanted Muslims free ASIA, did not/could not kill off all of them.
Mughal concentrated mostly along the north of India. The South was inhospitable, so most of the North Indian temples were destroyed by bloodthirsty Muslim and converted into mosques.
No world historian (but Muslim) will deny that Hindus were forcefully converted by Muslim zealots. For instance, analyse the role of Tipu Sultan, Aurungzeb and so many others.
Not all Hindus were killed or all temples were destroyed, It is obvious and Maria has not so pronounced.
Hitler did not kill all Jews or destroyed all synagogues. Muslims crime against Hindu worse than
Hitlars Holocaust. Hindu holocaust is bigger than Jewish holocaust, which pathetic Hindu secularist
wants to hide. There should be a ‘Nuremberg’ trail for barbaric Muslim genocide in India.
Whatever way you want to reason it, fact of the matter, many Hindu temples was destroyed and
many Hindus were forcefully converted. Look back into your own ancestry; you could be one of them.
Your quote from Quran is selective. You have not read Quran, and missed –
Quran(9-5) “So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, …”
Now Jihadi Khan, solder of Allah, consider yourself fortunate that you are NOT living in Pak, Afghanistan, Syria ,Iraq- but in Secular Hindu India. Pray to your Allah for the generosity of Hindus.
‘@kashif: even quran says abt the “virgins” what do u say abt that? What abt polygamy and many more male dominated decrees? I would kindly tell u to shut up and go back to ur madrassa and go ahead with stupid sermons!
Hinduism and sanathana dharma is a resilient lifestyle. Please try find out the history of Allahbad and Hajipur, and why they were called like that. You will know the intent of mughals and their barabarianism. But hindus are by nature forgiving and have a huge heart, hence even the most brutal invaders ended up accepting realities and liking Indian people. The reason they could not go marauding all temples is because they were aware of the resistance and opted wisely against it after trying it initially.
Very informative article, Maria. You deserve kudos from Hindus all over the world. All the best from Nepal which was officially world’s only Hindu country until 2008 ! Its Hindu character is still there as over 80% of 28 million people identify themselves as Hindus.
Mrs. Wirth your article was very interesting. I think if you have fb I’d it will helpful to change their Indians.
Extremely misleading and badly written article. This will surely fire up the right wing hindu nazis.
Excellent write up. I congratulate you on writing an insightful and bold post. To say that I agree with you would be an understatement. I personally believe that our constitution needs to be re-written and the politicians re-formed. Hindu religion is truly secular and and needs to be re-established for India to find its lost place and space in the world.
Obviously you are biased and opinionated. It is true that there are fanatics in every religion. Yet, Hinduism culturally promotes peace and harmony with all creatures – unlike many other prominent religions which believe in the superiority of their own thoughts / practices..
I understand what you mean Sir, but allow me please to clarify a couple of things from your praise of Maria´s article: that of “third person” and “a race you are not related”. I repeat, I understand what you mean, but I pray the moment arrives in which us, hindu but non indians, who consider, regard and revere Bharat as our Mother, are not seen as foreigners yet and as “other race”. India is beating in our heart, I would say more than in a vast majority of indians “by birth” who keep looking to the deceiving and poor West as their ideal. I wish all human beings were regarded by their deeds and their hearts more than by superficial accesories.
And I thank to you from the bottom of mine for being able to see through nationalities.
Everybody has a right for their own opinions, But, please, prove your points:
– misleading in what
– badly written: this is said when one wants to criticize and doesn´t know how.
– “right wing hindu” are not nazis: you have missed the whole story if you think so.
Mr. Bhishma, just shut up and keep away from this blog. This blog is for HINDUS, not for Pseudo Hindus like you. By keeping Hindu name no one believe you as Hindu. You are not invited to this blog, try some other blogs.
Dear Agni Thanks for your feedback. You seem to be not in a good mood.
That’s fine First thanks for giving me a prestigious label of SOLDIER OF ALLAH but I don’t think that I have done that good for the sake of Islam what Allah has done for me. OK just get to the point.
First suppose if I am a madrasa educated man that is not a bad thing If they teach me good things.
By giving argument about mughals I do not support them at all Because in my own opinion and I think in light of Islam most of them were sinners and they should be sent to hell on the day of Judgement (Allah knows better). You told me that they destroyed temples. Do you know that Supreme Court has made a rule that Mosque or Temple or any religious Place build on a public place should be demolished ARE THEY MUGHAL. Do you know how many Dargahs (Dargahs are prohibited in Islam) were destroyed by Aurangzeb. and how many mosques destroyed by them. Mughals did destroy Temples but did they make mosque on all those sites, on all of them, if you think so then u are on a wrong path 60,000 temples were destroyed and 3000 mosques were build source Vedantic (NOT HINDU, hindu is a geographical name) source http://www.godmandir.com/his.htm . If they wanted they could have build Mosques on all sites.
Still I say that 300 years are more than enough to convert whole India to Islam, But more than 80% of Indians still Non Muslims is a testimony that they were not that cruel
You are comparing Hitler with Mughals, are you kidding. As per wikipedia population of Jews now 1,37,46,100–1,79,36,40 take is 1.80 crore that means as population grows, at time of holocaust population should have been 90.00 lacs. 60.00 Lacs were killed as per official records (obviously real nos. inflates) so 2/3 were killed. Do you think 2/3 Vedantics were killed during mughal era.
I accept that my ancestors were not muslims now tell me one reason that why should I come back to the religion of my ancestor, just because my ancestors followed it. HAHAHAHA If I will tell you that ur ancestors wear neither trousers nor jeans would you wear dhoti. I think we should choose our religion from our own experience and facts and not from our ancestors. You will be surprised to know that a 5 years ago I was an atheist, then I was gifted Quran from Allah and now I am muslim. Moreover Sanatan Dharma are not from India. The only religion which was born in India were Buddhism and jainism which is seen no where that means Sanatan Dharma leader killed almost all buddhist. Now would you agree.
Quran(9-5) “So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, …” TOTALLY OUT OF CONTEXT this surah is not for innocent people but for all those who broke the peace agreement with Muslims read (9-4). Who were Kaf’ir of Makkah
You know what Quran(9-6) says about innocent non believers like you “If one amongst the Pagans(1253) ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah. and then escort him to where he can be secure.(1254) That is because they are men without knowledge.” Allah gave believers a duty to take non believers to a safe place. We should complain it and not you.
First I thanks Allah that he made me a Muslim then I thanks him to let me give my exams of Life in In our India. I would say that I love my India as you do even I think more than you do.
Thank You any reply is welcome.
Dear Naveen
I did not get your point.
If Islam is male dominated then I will leave Islam and again become an atheist.
thank you
Dear Sri
I am not a lawyer appointed by Mughals, If they destroyed any temples (on legal place) they will be punished on the day of judgement inshaa’allah
BSP come to power they change the name of places parks etc, then SP come to power they change the names. You will never complain against them and I know you will never complain.
You think it was their strategy to get off with some temples. If British with handful of military ranks can destroy India, then A huge military with proper equipment could have destroyed the whole India. They did not need to spare any temple. This is what British sowed in your mind after 1857 revolt.
MUGHALS KILLED HINDUS MUGHALS KILLED HINDUS. you know that all 9 NAVRATNAS in Akbar reign were Non Muslims. Of course you don’t.
any reply is welcome.
Wonderful article, Maria…. thanks…. hope people of this sub continent have wisdom enough to understand this……
[…] http://mariawirthblog.wordpress.com/2014/05/02/indian-secularism-is-not-secular/ […]
‘@Paki Bishma
Incognito Paki Mohamed Khan
Remove your burkha of ignorance, and clean your Islam infected disused brain. If Hindus were Nazis, India would have been a Muslim free country by now and Pakistan a miscarriage
Superb.
But we are waiting for the day when their is no
Hinduism left in India.
Every one takes advantage of us and in the name oof open mindedness we welcomes our day of destruction.
Amazing article Maria. Really appreciate it. The Hindus really need an awakening. And by that it doesn’t mean to show any superiority or something. They just need to find their self respect. Such articles can probably show them the way.
Here, we are lead by one set of leaders who defend their communalism through nationalism and the other set who defend their corruption by secularism.
Ok so Birtish put this in our minds that that Mughals destroyed 100 000 hindu temples. So why are the muslim Taliban in Afghanistan destroying Bhuddhist idols of Buddha with canon fire. Is this not muslim hate for other religions?
It seems word secularism was added to ensure that Hindus divided on caste lines remain so; as moment some one spoke of Hinduism or Hindus was dubbed as communal. . At the same time powers that be ridiculed Hinduism for caste biases so that complex already built in the Hindus continues to remain so ensuring so called low caste continue to see “secular” parties as their well wisher and continue to vote for them. . Finally secularism was never imposed on so called minorities.on whom the parties depended to win the elections.
In other words word ” secular” was a cruel joke thrust on the people.
Lucky to read this article. This was shared by Dr Subramanian Swamy on FB and that’s why i could read it. Good to know of another German who is exploring Indian/Hindu culture (though hindus have long stopped doing so) . Germans have always been the front-line foreigners who have been studying Hinduism. From Max Mullar to Maria Wirth.
‘@rajan kumar
Mr Kumar I am really surprised that your kind educated people think like that ok then take these examples
Hitler killed 6 million people so Christianity and Christians are bad
In mujaffarnagar many muslims were killed sanathan dharma and their followers are bad
Protestants Killed many Catholics protestants are bad
what do you want to prove….. do you really think if a group of muslim destroy a temple then whole
religion is bad or their followers. Do you know more people are killed by hindu militants then muslim militants in India.
Do you know what is the bloody condition of lower caste hindus in India, how they are being treated, you can’t imagine because you are not connected to earth. and when the same lower caste hindus go to muslim countries for job, they eat the same meal with muslims.
You talk me about temples you know idol worship is a sin in sanathan dharma. OFF COURSE YOU DON’T BECAUSE YOU ARE EDUCATED.
PREPARE WELL NEXT TIME
[…] Link to the above article –> http://mariawirthblog.wordpress.com/2014/05/02/indian-secularism-is-not-secular/ […]
u r going in technicality of the language which was being used. ok i will give a technical reply
Verse says “children of israel” and not “ONLY children of israel”. if allah wanted to say that only children of israel then there would have been “innama” and not “innahu”
hope i answered the question
well said ….. both thumbs up
Fantastic write up Maria.
We have now reached a state where I can’t call myself a hindu/vedic while standing in Hindustan, without me being labeled as a non-secular, communal, pro-hindu terror whop has sold his soul. And guess where the labels come from? From fellow urban, english speaking hindu themselves, hypnotized by the paid media.
A movie/docudrama on the ishrat jahan case explores this apparent secular political divide and goes on to prove how even terrorists are now being proven innocents for short term electoral gains. It is frightening as to what is happening in this nation now
http://vimeo.com/90870480
Do watch, and if you feel like following it up, ping @mmpandit on twitter
You appear to be swept away with your injudicious vocabulary.
Majority sentiment’ is not communal. Hindu Communalist? – Would be a good thing
for whole India and its 85% of inhabitants. If this can stop barbaric Muslim
fundamentalism and preserve the civilization of ancient Indian culture, Hindus
should welcome it with open arm. All the so called Hindu liberal & secularist can
be posted to Islamic republics for enlightenment.
Secularism in India today is nothing but Muslim appeasement at the expense of
the Hindu majority & vandalising a civilised culture.
Interests of Hindus & Muslims are not and never been identical, as the latter wants
all India under Muslim domination. No faith or organisation in the world can be more
communal than Islamic doctrine.
[…] Indian Secularism is not secular. […]
kashif bhai, its indeed comical that you compare serious mass killing marauders like the Mughals (akbar was the only exception in their otherwise long 9 century dynastic rule, you know why, because he was born in a hindu household who gave his family shelter when his own relative was out to kill him as a baby for being an emperor) to a petty political outfit like BSP. Akbars own son Jahangir turned out to be a brute like his forefathers falling to radical sunni islam. Akbar launched his own religion getting away from islam, Din-I-Ilahi, which had no takers after him. I do not even know if I should have a serious dialogue with half baked young folks like you but I will for the moment and for one last time. Mughals killed and maimed people of other faiths for centuries just because they were of a different faith. .BSP did NOT.Its just a stupid political party trying to garner votes by playing the dalit card. ‘Allahbad’ (it is originally PRAYAG) and Hajipur for your info was the name coined by mughals after they killed lakhs of hindus and publicly maiming those who refused to convert. Also read the history of sikhs and how mughals brutalized their gurus who refused to convert. Having said that, I do not hate islam or muslims. I respect their faith and we hindus only want them to respect ours…as simple as that. I realize there are several very nice muslims who get along with other faiths seamlessly but they also need to understand Islam is not the only supreme faith out there, and this needs to be accepted by muslims. HINDUS never claim that theirs is the holier than thou philosophy. Even RSS does not do that, they even have a muslim wing. I would love to have a debate with some openminded muslim intellectual some day about all this but right now, I am busy fending for myself and my family putting food on our table every day. Good luck with your IAS pursuits.
And coming to casteism, ALL FAITHS practice discrimination of some sort or the other today in the world. It is just that it exists in all religions under different overheads..thats all. Watch the caste/jati bhedbhaav episode of satyameva jayate of season 1 and you will know casteism exists in ISLAM as well. These days youngsters like yourself do not read much and get into the depth of matters. Merely forming superficial opinions about things based on hearsay is an insult to your education. No religion preaches discrimination but perverted individuals manipulate religious sermons to discriminate between human beings. This is true to hinduism, islam, sikhism, christianity.
Sandeep,
Respectfully, Max Muller was German but was hired by British to study Indian scriptures and write or re-write them for their way to fool Indians (read Hindus) to recreate a parallel Law to punish Hindus. Please peruse the details of such characters. Max Muller was a poor man and wanted money desperately to support his family and fell prey to skewed British trickery.
wonderful article. I know you probably get a lot of praise from the hindus for this article. I am a christian in India and i not only loved this article but agree with you for the most part. I say most part because as a catholic I have not received any special treatment being a minority, nor do i need any as I come from a financially able family and I firmly believe that a persons merits make him eligible for his opportunities. I am firmly against all these quotas that the so called “minorities and backward class” recieve as most of them are at the moment filthy rich and have no need for the same.I am a doctor currently trying for a PG entrance exam and half the nations seats goes to people like this. The political parties are indeed using “religion” to divide our great nation and the people do not realize that what they do are in itself against the actual religion they must follow. And this follows for all religious parties including the one for the Hindus. If what you said about the hindu dharna is true I also think most of the Hindus have forgotten this also. I hope one day we can just live and let live
Kashif, I wanted to answer one more folly of yours. You muslims think 80% of india remained hindus due to the benevolence of mughals and their religious tolerance but you are utterly wrong there. Several rajput kings, and not to forget maratha empire (Shivaji maharaj) fought staunchly and valiantly against mughals and protected the south from conversion under the sword. Mughals after a point just got tired and could not do an egypt or iran here.
Its easy to say this but what option do hindus today have to protect their lifestyle without resorting to nationalism ? Afterall India is the only nation out there on this planet where hindus reside as a majority. Where will we go if foreign ideologies and abrahamic religions take over India and persecute our lifestyle and beliefs ?
brother sri
my last reply
mughals were sinners fire of hell is waiting them inshaa’allah. because they killed innocent people and they followed polygamy. writer expresses that islam did put fear in the hearts of sanathan dharma followers. Ok for a moment I agree with her, now writer says that islam is being spread in european countries you tell me who is putting fear in those people heart.
Ok now for a moment I agree to you that, mughals put fear into the hearts of people of india and made them to accept islam. I am a converted Muslim (before that I was and Atheist) and I am proud that I did not follow the path of my parents. You respect mine religion but I am a better follower of santhan dharma follower than you are, BECAUSE I DO NOT PRACTICE POLYGAMY BECAUSE I BELIEVE IN ONENESS OF GOD (as per vedas).
Give me one reason I will become Sanathan Dharma Follower as my ancestors would have been.
Islam discriminates, If one sanathan dharma follower discriminates that does not mean allI followerss discriminates. Your books do not respect Harijans. If they do then tell me why Dr. Ambedkar (more knowledgeable person than you and me) made all of them accept Buddhism.
ISLAM DISCRIMINATES, islam does not but Muslim does, and they are doing sins by doing this, even I can not discriminates with you or Maria, you are welcome to come to my home.
You meant I have gained half knowledge and you are more knowledgeable than me OK I agree. That is y u still call ur self hindu which is a geographical name. In last who cares how much knowledge we possess but it should be good.
I did not want to reply you as u know how much precious the time is for me, but this is my duty which is ordered by Allah to me to spread the knowledge.
this is my last reply, hope u understand what I want to say
BEST OF LUCK WITH UR LIFE NICE TALKING TO YOU.
We have been divided on purpose friends:
Although You are right when you say society is divided into caste system, but truth is it is Society itself, not the hindu religion divides you and more striking truth is it was britishers who poisoned our system. yes vedas talk about 4 classes but those not based on birth rights, you can carry out routine of a priest if you are intelligent enough, look at example of Maharishi Valmiki.
Raghu- do you know manusamriti which is available to read is fake one and created by britishers and original is not available to us.
We are here to unite whole India, so please take some time and read this wonderful article by Capt Vadakayil and Manusmriti. And untouchable was never a part of being Hindu until purposefully it was injected to divide us:
http://ajitvadakayil.blogspot.com/2011/07/untouchables-capt-ajit-vadakayil.html
http://ajitvadakayil.blogspot.com/2011/01/manu-first-law-maker-capt-ajit.html
this person has over 800 posts to tell scientific and real dimension of Indian culture which have been manipulated to weaken us.
Come on all n let us unite. and show this world what is real place of India
Maria- you guys can’t be third person. those who understand the true meaning of hindu culture, come under a single group that is called humans for world peace. that is where you and Maria W and myself belong and we need to spread this unconditional love among all humans on this planet. “Vasudeva katumbkam”, the entire world is a family.
Culture you are talking about is not original Indian culture, the modern society with all the divisions in classes you are seeing is result of poison injected by Britishers in our scriptures and culture on a purpose to divide us. Our “Original manusamriti” is not made available to us, all we read is fake one the one britishers wanted us to read.
Vedas never talked about class difference based on Birth, Look at Mahrishi Valmiki. everyone should have equal right in society based on their intelligence and perception.
If you don’t trust me, at least follow my request and read following 2 articles by Capt Vadakayil. If you really think you are a modest unbiased person with an understanding of wrong and right, you will have a totally changed view after reading this. Capt is exhuming the every bit of truth which have been kept hidden from us in order to divide us, and pasting on Facebook like this. you again are dividing India. Vedic sanskriti is not to be kept in museum, it is to sustainability of human life on this earth.
I am a well qualified scientific person and I am sure that to understand vedas you need a genius mind as i am not able to understand all of it. Go to Capt blog and you will know what you see in India is not part of our ancient culture. he has over 800 posts, i say I need entire life time to go through them as he also talk about scientific dimension of our scriptures.
http://ajitvadakayil.blogspot.com/2011/07/untouchables-capt-ajit-vadakayil.html
http://ajitvadakayil.blogspot.com/2011/01/manu-first-law-maker-capt-ajit.html
India is most ancient civilization and it prevailed and will prevail as it has spiritual dimension in it. let us unite India!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
For example in Germany, the Constitution guarantees that the Christian doctrine is taught in government schools.
which one: protestant or catholic?
I fully agree with Ms.Maria Wirth. I only wish every literate Hindu read this and awaken himself/herself in order to spread the word among the illiterate so that they all arise to vote out the parties that unnecessarily please and favour Christians and Muslims for their votes. It is time to arise and to awake.
It is a strange situation. Some “foreigners” are more Indian than people who are born and brought up in India who continue to live in this country without knowing anything about the great heritage of this country. Indian spirituality is scientific and universal. It unambiguously states that every soul is divine and has the right to realize the real nature. Indians have always prayed for the whole universe never limiting their prayer to people of any particular geographic area as is done in some “developed” countries.
Dear Maria you have understood the Hinduism in a much much better way than our enlightened english speaking gentry(i call them biggest damagers of our culture).You are absolutely right when you say that, only when foreigners will follow the path of the great Rishis will India copy them.This is what our great leaders like Jawahar Lal Nehru have given us to FEEL INFERIOR AND REMAIN COPY CATS
Both. However, in the different German states usually one of the Churches is in the majority. so if there are only few students who belong to the other Church, they are taught together from all classes.
‘@ SRINIVASA
You have been watching too many B movies like ‘Jodha Akbar’.
Don’t be a gullible Hindu, read Indian history again, which is not doctored by congress
secularist before utter your stupidity in public.
Akabar was a cruel killer, a GAZI (killer of kaffirs (Hindus).
* History of Jauhar and Sati: Battle of Panipat
* THOUSANDS OF RAJPUT WOMEN PERFORMED JAUHAR in chittod,
*Akbar beheaded helpless Samrat Vikramaditya Hemraj to earn the title of Ghazi (the slayer of infidel) and Was blessed by his Muslim dervish ‘Salim Chisti’
To call mass hindu killer Akbar as ‘The Great’ is an affront to all civilized societies and Hindus
Akbar was a merciless, sadistic cruel killer like the rest of Mughals.
Madhu/Madhug seems to attack again!!! Whatever disguise she uses, it stinks the same…..
[…] and contented. If not, probably the west discovers this treasure trove and adopts it…..first. – Maria Wirth Blog, 2 May […]
Absolutely wonderful article.. thanks dear…
Motive of everything bad/ good happening in India- Break their unity and conquer them:
So to all who are discussing class system in Hindu community. I request all of you to go through these links and decidee yourself, you still want to remain divided as Britishers wanted us to?
Sine mr Kashif mentioned about crooked Ambedkar, just see the exposed face of this British stooge monster, who played a major role in dividing india
http://ajitvadakayil.blogspot.com/2012/08/cnn-ibn-poll-greatest-indian-since.html
The following link talk about untouchability poison injected by Britishers. Vedas never discriminate a person based on birth right. its your perception which take you to higher levels. Mahrishi Valmiki is best example:
http://ajitvadakayil.blogspot.com/2011/07/untouchables-capt-ajit-vadakayil.html
The following link talk about fake Manusamriti being in circulation to read, original is not available to us.
http://ajitvadakayil.blogspot.com/2011/01/manu-first-law-maker-capt-ajit.html
This great person ( Capt Ajit Vadakayil) has declared to rewrite the human history, he already written over 800 posts. we, indians don’t know anything, what we know is what britishers wanted us to know. Our history books, scriptures all have been manipulated. Take time and read his another posts where he talks about how pandits were abducted and were forced to inject poison and rewrite our scriptures in Sanskrit. Well what you guys know if you don’t know Capt Ajit Vadakayil.
Let us unite India.
[…] Source: Maria Wirth Blog […]
Very well said, Ms Maria. Same piece, if written by an Indian will be automatically labelled ‘communal’ by our Indian secularati! Thank you for writing it and because recommended by eminent Hindu nationalists, this is getting wider audience. We get to read in the Internet that there is a wider, sinister plan to surround Hindus by artificially creating a ‘green belt’ from Pakistan to Bangladesh passing through Indian states (Uttar Pradesh, Bihar, West Bengal). While Hindus, generally, practice family planning (limiting their family size to 2 children), others, generally, do not do so. I have read elsewhere that while the Hindu population increased from 25 crores in 1947 to 85 crores in 2011, the corresponding figures in case of Muslims are 3 crores and 25 crores! India’s problems are due to its over-population (we are 120 crores now!), but it is anathema to talk of population problems, lest one becomes ‘communal’. India conducts decadal census of its population, but strangely for the latest census of 2011, the Government has not yet released the religion wise data. Obvious something is not right…. Yet, the ‘Hindus’ do not react! Hope more such articles will open the eyes of the people & politicians….
Reality is much scarier than what you wrote maria.. In state of AP , missionaries & NGOs are creating havoc in the name of Jesus. They ridicule Hindu religious practices. Come to hospitals & brainwash vulnerable patients. All happening because Indians are not fully aware of devious intentions of Abrahamic faiths.
I asked my dad why grandpa converted . He told church promised that after his death , they’ll take care of his dead body because his son won’t lit pyre & do last rites.. & many such hate mongering stories happening here.
Please ,somebody from west should help us
Excellent article Maria.b you truly described the meaning of secularism without being biased to anything.
While Hinduism kept improving over a period clearing of practices like sati, widow remarriages etc still we see it overlaid by feudal atrocities which even state practices. How does this conundrum gets explained n also Conscience which u mentioned seems to be reducing.Highly religious but highly corrupt as well which is denying others their rightful resources.
Maria…Thanks a million for such clear cut thinking and factual background of Secularism and of course your views on Secularism in India. I only wish, sense dawns on so-called Indian Intellectuals. Regards and Thanks once again – KRV
‘@SATYA
Pathetic- Why asks west help; they are the one who creating this problem.
Re Convert the converted Muslim/Christian. Dont B a coward all the time
Quote from the book A Wonderful World – Vikas Publishers
Secularism is the most misquoted word in the context of religion. Secularism does not mean that a government does not lean towards a religion. It means that governance is not influenced by individuals or institutions that have a religious mindset. If a Muslim is placed at the realm of affairs in Benares Hindu University, he will not be biased by his religion for governance. This is secularism. The primary aim of secularism is to limit violence caused due to religion.
[…] http://mariawirthblog.wordpress.com/2014/05/02/indian-secularism-is-not-secular/comment-page-2/#comm… […]
“Democracy & Human Rights” is practically a new ‘religion’ of mankind which is the result of unprecedented advance in modern Science & technology of last ~ 600 years (where every human being has become valuable and important ). No other religion is so powerfull and relavant in contemporary world. All the religions (Hinduism, Christianity, Islam etc) came in existence during rule of kings and emperors hence hey all buttress ‘Rajtantra’ (State-cracy) and mostly come in conflict with “Democracy & Human Rights”. Therefore we need not waste our time and energy on these religions (Hinduism, Christianity, Islam etc)
As far secularism in India we need not search some deep meaning into it. It is simply the result of India’s partition on religious ground where ~ 1 million were killed and ~ 10 millions were displaced in gory situation and still riots occur in India (even in 21st century people were killed in Gujarat and Muzaffarnagar in the name of religion). Therefore secularism has been kept for practical purpose to discourage riots between followers of different religion, and nothing more.
Hem Raj Jain
Email: jainhemraj59@gmail.com
If my reading of the Constitution and the intention is correct, the phrase “Secular” to the Government was to mean ‘Equality’ in following one’s faith so far as its religion is concerned. Government would not interfere in any religion/communal group and Government shall not allow these religion/communal interests to interfere is Government while discharging its constitutional obligations. But the so called “Vote Bank” had distorted this vision and divided the entire political fraternity into two blocks – Secular and Communal. But secularism to this so called “Secular” political groups meant only one thing – appease Muslims to the maximum and to some extent appease distinct minority groups like the Christians, Sikhs. All others were classified as Hindus and any political group favoring these Hindus had been termed as “Communal”. Let us not view the term “Secularism” though the lens of Western thinking. Let us interpret the phrase though Indian Ground Realities. Let this interpretation be not clouded with the Mythology, different interpretation of the preaching, and the history during the rules of Mughals/Muslims/Britishers. It is high time to correctly interpret the phrase “Secularism”, correct the anomalies, and rightly enforce the Secularism in its true spirit and intent. That would mean – (1) Enforce common law for every citizen of the country; (2) Repeal any special personal laws which run contrary to the Constitution; (3) Repeal any and all preferences related to any religious performances (Like subsidy for Haj, holding city to ransom in the name of religions functions, declaration of National Holidays in the name of Religion etc.); (3) Modify the reservation system based upon the economic and financial condition of the citizen as opposed to reservation on the basis of cast, creed and religion; and finally (4) No influence of any religion/community in forming the national policies. Over a period of time, the country could become truly Secular.
About the most criticised caste system of India; Gita sloka…. clearly states that Brahmin is a person who lives for others and leads a simple life. Mother Teresa, Guru Nanak, Anna Hazare, …… are Brahmins. The sloka further amplifies, Brahmin is not by birth but by karma ( actions). Many so called Brahmins in india by birth are in fact sudras because of their selfish life styles.
V. Dev – Hindus would never retaliate. Firstly due to the basic theme of Hindu Religion – “Kshama”. Secondly Hindus in India is a heterogeneous group consisting of too many faiths – Sanatan, Shaiv, Vaishnav, Dravidian, Jains, Budhism and within each group the so called casts or varnas so andd so forth. Why do we get guided by West? Do we not have our own brain and logic. Today’s malady in India related to “Secularism” had been distorted by the importance of “Vote Bank”. Why for every secular political Party, Muslims are of utmost importance? Muslims over-ride the factors like casts, economic conditions so and so forth. In 1947, according to the history known to us, this sub-continent was divided into two countries spread over three geographical regions solely on the principle of Religion – Muslims and Non-Muslims. If substantial size of Muslims chase to remain within the divided India, they must submit themselves to the Constitution of India. The Government should not have enacted special laws and special privileges for them. Secularism should mean that in this country there is freedom to follow one’s own faith in religion so long as one submits itself to be governed by the Constitution of the country.
‘@Hem Raj Jain:
A person who preaches that present human kind does not require any religion, who uses the religious and caste name for himself and says religion is waste of time. Religion is not a waste of time but it is a faith; belief. Don’t apply your atheist thoughts on us. If you don’t like to follow, just keep away from religion, nobody is here ready to here your waste of time thoughts.
Hi Maria !
A deep insight on so called Sick-ularism. Nice article.
Me and my Family too have been the VICTIM of so called Sick-u-larism.
yes what has been written is true. It is also true that we are paying heed to it because it is from a German and not an Indian. Ever thought why Indian intellectuals never questioned the Indian ‘secularism’! Because the only read Indian intellectuals are the ones who are westernised and only echo western thoughts and views even on Indian-ism. Original thinking that was the center- piece of Indian-ism was destroyed by the British when they introduced the present system of education in India which was tailored to produce cronies and yes men to support British rule in India. Our national anthem was written by Gurudev Rabindra Nath Tagore for the first visit of the then British ruler, who is referred to as ‘adhinayak’ and ‘Bharat bhagya vidhata’.
‘@MIKERANA
Secularism-
(1) the strict separation of the state from religious institutions.
(2) that people of different religions and beliefs are equal before the law.
Your self-made/rented definition of secularism is meaningless and misguided.
Your declaration – “does not mean that a government does not lean towards a religion”.
is applicable to India and this can’t be used as a principle.
Secularism in India = minority (Muslims) appeasement at the cost of majority {Hindu).
Read & digest Maria’s article if you can, may well learn something.
brother dinesh
i did not want to write anything but u and others pointed on my heroes.
i know many r here communal, and when u talk hate about Muslims that does not matter I understand this is what has been taught to you by ur parents, But when u people talk about Dr. Ambedkar, u criticized rabindranath tagore, that make u a terrorist of this country
ur kind of people who points on our freedom fighters r just mean nothing for our country.
thats all i want to say
I M VERY SADDENED AFTER READING COMMENTS BELOW THIS ARTICLE.
@MARIA thanks for writing this article now because of HATE SPREADERS like you i got the chance to know that in my country still these kinds of people exist. SHAME ON YOU MARIA SHAME ON YOU
this is my last comment on this blog i am going to unfollow it.
SORRY BROTHER DINESH FOR MY ILL WORDS BUT STILL UR COMMENT HURTS ME MOST
very unfortunate
WISHING U LUCK FOR UR FUTURE ……………
‘@kashif khan, don’t get upset. And believe me that not everyone got these kinds of education from their parents. You can imagine a person who could blame Rabindranath, who denied Knight because of Jallianwala.
@Dinesh Chandra, please read the history of India. For your ready reference :
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/bangalore/Was-Jana-Gana-Mana-in-praise-of-George-V/articleshow/32609087.cms
@Maria, the meaning of a word changes from place to place, depending many factors. It’s unfortunate that people would comment about something with only dictionary knowledge!
Please understand “Dharma” and religion is different. You have touched upon it.
Please understand, that the winner has always looted and butchered. Nothing new in it. It does not matter if it was Muslims or Christians or Shintos! Yasukuni Shrine is one of the examples. Look at Japan and what Japan did to China and Korea!
Did someone mention a word “Kshama” (Sughosh Bansal)? That sums it up all.
Hope sanity prevails.
‘@ DINESH
The Song was written for King George??? – Tagore denied it, it is an unsettled issue.
You can translate “‘Bharat bhagya vidhata’ in different meaning to suit your own objective.
Tagore was Angophile but not an a$$ licker. He returned his ‘Sir’ title to same King George!
The greatest and most enduring gift of the swedeshi movement was Vande Mataram, the uncrowned national anthem- objected by communal Maulan Mohd. Ali (congress) and other Muslims.
Maria, I read your writings, because I can associate my thinking and you put things in proper perspective. Lot of us grow up in the environment but are not well read and most argue based on what they hear on TV or read in news papers. Unfortunately, both are against Hindus in India. I certainly hope more and more people learn from your writings if not other things…
This is a great piece, with a lot of interesting perspective. Unfortunately the way Indian history has been written doesn’t lend our own nation to understand the values that our culture stands for.
As an Indian Christian, I feel the need to say that while certainly there were historical prejudices against Hindus by both the Mughals and the British (read Muslims and Christians), brandishing the followers of these faiths today as opponents of Hinduism who have no respect for the Hindu faith is dangerous. Equally dangerous is the assumption being made (and I could be wrong) that the followers of these religions today are sympathizers of those colonists, and do not deserve the protection afforded by a truly secular state. I do not doubt that there are sections of my faith, Christianity, that seek to undermine Hinduism. However, the true mark of a secular state is to do away with the complete intermixing of religion and state. And for that, India’s version of secularism needs to be updated. However, not at the expense of labeling minorities as the aggressors responsible for historic wrongs that we did not have any control over, nor sympathize with.
Reblogged this on blur-eden blog and commented:
Interesting write-up on secularism and its roots. And what secularism has come to in India.
Secularism in India these days is a tactic used by political parties to gather votes during elections. How else do you explain a mix-up of politics and religion in a secular country – given that a truly secular separates the state from the religions. India is moving towards its dark ages I fear.
Political parties either want the votes of the major religion or minor ones and the secularism debate on TV is the outcome of that.
It is not a creation of any religion.
You have unnecessarily brought in Christianity and other religions here.
The past (the history) need not be brought in to incite anger of different groups.
It is wise to bury the past and look for harmony.
Country’s prosperity will come in harmony even if it is forced like Singapore.
If you really want to do good, if you have found something good in your new-found religion, write something that will bring harmony and not divisions.
For your information India has enough divisions on language, regions, caste, water sharing and many more. No need for added spice.
You have written: Golden Rule: not to do to others what one does not want to be done to oneself. It was about having noble thoughts. It was about how to live life in an ideal way.
By the way this is from the Bible Do unto to others as you would have them do to you.
Mr. Kashif Khan – Who on this earth is not communal? In the context of India, in fact no one hates Muslims, but they do hate constant appeasement of Muslims by the political class of the Society. And having relationship between Muslims and Non-Muslims is the matter of individual choice. In case this country wants peace, and harmony, the first thing that need to be done is complete abolition of appeasement of any community, including Muslims. So far the Muslims in this country have not assimilated themselves into the mainstream. On the Social Media, many Muslim leaders do spread fanaticism. That must stop. After 67 years of living in this part of sub-continent, if the Muslim community consider themselves as Non-Indian, then situation would never improve.
It reminds me of the canard circulated by the Marxists against Swami Vivekananda dubbing him as unemployed (also, unemployable?), addicted to smoking, gullible person(implying that he fell prey to quack Sri Ramakrishna…..
Do not try to spit heavenwards it will fall on you:-)
‘@ NAIL TRUTH
Why Christianity is above criticism. Indian civilisation has been trampled upon by the foreign bloodthirsty mercenaries & barbaric sect for too long. India got independence, but Hindus are still marginalised. Many of them are refugees in their own country and even unable to build a ‘Ram temple for their Gods; this scenario is unacceptable.
Hindus in India (except as licking so called lefties) are grateful to Maria’s effort to highlight the injustice.. She is not threatening, excommunicating or issuing fatwa against anyone. If you are so hurt, perhaps you would present your own case with accompanying facts. Hindus must fight to safeguard their rights in their ancient homeland and pussyfooting is not an option
Maria is focused on real issues and not into minority appeasement, unpleasant truth hurts. So be it. I am sure Maria will carry on regardless.
Minority religious groups inciting violence against majorities; have you ever commented or complained?
Marias writings perform as a guide, to awaken passive ignorant Hindus. India calls for millions more Maria.
‘@Agni
It is up to you to keep the hatred on for your life time if you believe that will do good for your country. There are many riot torn countries in Africa with bullet decorated buildings and deserted streets. If your vision for your country is that, God help you.
Maria or anybody spreading hatred between religious groups or linguistic groups or caste groups is not good for the country and now against the law.
None with thinks that his religion is a lie.
It applies to all, Hindu, Christians and Muslims.
Nothing wrong.
But, there may be some who are not sure if they are in the right track or not.
When not sure, some try to find the find the truth that satisfy their mind and change. But many, due to social, cultural pressure don’t do that.
Maria has believed that there is truth in Hindu religion and changed. Many in this bloggers are so happy about this, a Christian becoming a Hindu.
No angry posts from Christians. She is free to choose.
Maria says she has found truth. Fine.
But Christians cannot say that they have the truth. It is wrong she says.
I see a bias there.
Christian belief is dogmatic ( unbending) she says. Yes it is. Truth is unbending. If it is bending it is not truth for the one who believes.
A Hindu or Muslim believes in what he thinks is dogmatic truth, it is fine and that is a reality. Saying any religion is not dogmatic is a fallacy.
Based on what we are doing it is said that we are all of one Varna only, Vaishya. We are all selling something to earn our living, talent or education or labour.
Dear Nail Truth,
You have posted many comments, also on other posts. I saw them, sometimes wanted to reply, but did not get down to do it. Now a few points:
You are grateful to the Christians that they saved you from poverty. You wanted to show gratefulness and converted (by convincing yourself first that it is a good religion). So far I can follow.
The problem comes now that insidiously, you will feel pressure to look down on your ancestor’s faith. I once asked a priest whether it is true that converts have to eat cow meat. “No, we don’t force them”, he said, “but of course they have to show that they belong to us now.” This includes in the case of tribals destroying the murtis they had worshipped….
I would request you to tell even your children, the second generation, not to believe this unfounded, outrageous claim that Hindus go to hell, that their devas are devils, etc. and please also say this openly and boldly to Church people. Can you do this? Or do you believe meanwhile that Hindus go to hell? This would mean your intelligence has suffered already.
Exclusiveness, which means only Christianity (or Islam) is true and everyone has to adopt it, came with the dogmatic religions only some 2000/ 1400 years ago. Humanity is here since much much longer. I read once an interesting analogy: Do you think the one great God gave life to human beings on earth and then sent the instruction manual, how to live life, much later….
Regarding truth. Yes, there is only one and ever the same, but it is not ‘dogmatic’. Truth is not a story, that this and this happened at that and that time, that Jesus is the only son of God, etc… truth is what is true about yourself ) right now (yourself is the starting point for discovering truth, as you don’t even know whether anything ‘outside’ of you really exists or whether it is a dream).
And here Hindu Dharma is outstanding. It points to that one truth (as of course it cannot be contained in words) and gives innumerable ways to feel this truth as real (which is infinite and not limited to one’s person). Hindu Dharma does not even restrict you from worshipping Christ as a means to experience this truth.
I meet often Christians, including missionaries. They open up to me, expecting a pat on their shoulders. I ask them what I asked you: don’t look down on your Hindu brothers and sisters. Their tradition stands tall among other religions. It is in fact the solution for the problems that dogmatic religions create.
Maria Wirth
I am secular.I belong to a religion which is not dogmatic.It is more a philosophy to Live and let live.It is tolerant towards all religions.Well that’s all there is to this issue.I as an individual respect individuals for what they are,instead of based on the religion they follow!Maj Gen VP Yadav
‘@ Nail Truth
Millions of converted impressionist like you exist in India.
Nobody should be touched with your emotional outburst.
You traded your soul to missionaries, be happy with it, Hindus won’t complain.
Hindus & Jews don’t believe in conversion. Though it sound very ethical, but in today’s
world, a serious mistake. India must stop all conversions, and start reconverting the Christian /Muslim for the sake of India’s security & integrity..
Every time a Hindu gets converted, a potential ‘enemy within’ is born.
Maria shares ancient Hindu wisdom, which your parents did not have and could not give you, and the result you are being Christian.
Nobel laureate ‘V.S. Naipaul’ puts it brilliantly- “Islam has had a calamitous effect on converted peoples. To be converted you have to destroy your past, destroy your history. You have to stamp on it, you have to say ‘my ancestral culture does not exist, it does not matter’….”
“It makes imperial demands. A convert’s worldview alters. His holy places are in Arab lands. His sacred language is Arabic. His idea of history alters. He rejects his own: he becomes, whether he likes it or not, a part of the Arab story. The convert has to turn away from everything that is his.”
Now, can you see yourself in this depiction?
People who have not experienced anything are the ones who talk loudly and criticize others. Our ancestors have taught us a practical method of experiencing our true nature as spiritual. Indian spirituality is not just theoretical but practical. Any one can practice the yoga of Patanjali and experience peace and joy within. This is explained clearly by Paramahans Yogananda in his lessons. His Autobiography of a Yogi is a fascinating book.
One who experiences his real nature will realize that the same spirit dwells in everyone and loves everyone. He does not see Hindus, Christians, Muslims etc. but sees the same cosmic spirit in every being. This is what India has been teaching for millennia. But unfortunately some self styled spiritual leaders are dividing humanity for selfish gains. This malady has even affected India. It is high time we promote scientific spirituality cutting across all barriers of caste, religion and nationality. Indian spirituality is not dogmatic. It encourages everyone to practice and experience himself
‘@ Maj Gen Yadav
. What you or anyone believes is purely personal choice.
This so called secular, tolerant concept that you seem to boast, did not save India being conquered, brutalised throughout the history, did not save being divided, did not save Kashmiri Brahmins being homeless ….. did not stop Hindus being massacred.
You sound more like a monk than a general. I hope you have retired; you would be a wrong choice to fight for India. Nonviolence, secularism, ethics & philosophy will not wash with the adversary. To have peace, you must make war.
Your believe should reside in the temple, not in the battlefield.
. A general with a tunnel vision
Nothing can be more ridiculous than believing that a person will go to heaven simply by changing his religion, name and going to a different place of worship but continuing to be the same person,. If a person improves himself there is no need for him to change his religion. Religious conversion is a major cause of conflict today.
When a person changes his religion he gets alienated from his friends and relatives. This can lead to conflicts.. If one community wants to increase its numbers there is no reason why the other community should not try to preserve its numbers. This world cannot enjoy lasting peace unless religious conversion comes to an end.
Christians and Muslims think they have to save Hindus. Let them first decide which of the two leads to heaven. If it is Christianity then all Muslims should convert to that. If it is Islam then all Christians should convert. Those who claim that only their scripture is perfect are killing each other. What makes them think they can save others. Let Hindus save themselves.
dear Maria Wirth,
I hv bn reading your article for the past couple of months,they are interesting,information rich,do you have your articles avvailble in German language,as I am a Tourist Guide German language,if your the articles available in above mentioned language it wud be easierfor me to add the same to my info treasure,
regards,hv a nice time
thanks
Yogi(it is mr shotr name)
Thanks for choosing to reply. We are told in our Church that if you are born in a garage, you are not a car. That is to say that if you are born is a Christian home; you don’t automatically become a Christian. Each one has to take a conscious decision. As I blogged earlier, I took a conscious decision and did not become a Christian to show my gratitude.
Every religion has punishment for sins and reward for sinless living. You must be now familiar with rebirths, being born a Brahmin and then swargam as a Hindu. If you have sinned, a dip in Kasi or certain pujas would purify you. Or doing a good deed to cancel a bad deed.
Christians believe that God is a God for all, that is literates and illiterates, poor and rich and he has given us conscience which directs us in the right path and so none has an excuse. Nobody can commit a wrong deed without knowing it is wrong. (This also answer the instruction manual for life coming late)
They also believe nobody, be it a bishop or a priest can live without sinning because God can see your thoughts and intensions too.
Coming out of sin is by believing Jesus died on the cross took our punishment. This is available to anybody even to the poor who cannot go to Kasi or spend money on Puja or doing good which too needs money. In fact people belonging to my caste are not even allowed inside many temples. Now you know why my group of people become Christians. It is not by force or by luring. Christianity can be the only choice for people like me. Some in the blog are venting out anger when we convert to Christianity, but these people (those who belong to higher caste) will not even enter the area we live as they think that God created us lower than them, but they are so concerned when we change our belief.
I hope you won’t single out Christianity in having different route to salvation and a different punishment for sin. You can see that Hindus too have distinctly uncompromised route with different punishment and reward. Logically both cannot become true to one person.
who r behind this?
http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/germany-jails-eight-christian-fathers-for-removing-children-from-sex-ed-cla
‘@ Agni:
Before they convert they are dirt and after they are enemies. Have I put it right for you?
‘@ Major.
Appreciate your respecting others . But you can be in a dogmatic religion which believes in one truth and still respect others. What you believe should teach you that. That’s what I am.
Guys I yet to understand as to why we should bear the nuisance of religion conversion?
We have already paid the cost for this by dividing out country into 3 pieces, do we need to see more split in this country?
Boss, the point is simple, we don’t care about your religion and their customs as long as you don’t sneak in to our path. If you can’t co-exist with us, no problem, find a country which supports you (not country will accept you without Indian passport) or else keep your mental balance in control and continue your routine work without fingering into others’ religion.
dear Yogi,
i have the open letter to Pope Francis in German. will send it to you. Further there are some articles (like God in India) on the Yoga Aktuell website. The article on research on rebirth is also on the net (google: maria wirth, der Fall Titu).
i have written a book in German (personal account on my 25 years in India) “Von Gurus, Bollywood und heiligen Kuehen”, Herbig 2006 and a long chapter on Baba Ramdev in another book “Indien wie wir es sehen”.
i have many more articles, but have not put them up on the net, as i don’t want to dilute the blog too much, as mostly English speaking readers visit it..
Maria
Dear George,
I am happy to read your comment. Hindus must live as per the principles of Sanathana Dharma. While we follow the core principles of our religion such as love towards all, service for the poor, etc, we must not discriminate against people following other religions. We must treat all religions as equal. I am happy that you appreciate the ‘respect all religions’ approach many Hindus follow. I agree with your suggestion that all Hindus must follow this approach. While realising and proclaiming the greatness of one’s culture and heritage is to be appreciated, the same should not be used to promote hatred against people of other religions. The very survival of India rests on religious harmony
you have echoed the true feelings of a Hindu. He is not at all dogmatic. his religion has a place for an atheist. Hinduism is a way of life. as you put it BE GOOD AND DO GOOD. That is the essence of hinduism. God bless you . It is immaterial whatwvwe name you give to that God
‘@ Balaji
I can only debate on equal terms. The way we debate also reveals our background, education, family and also how each one’s religion has shaped him. We are debating on someone’s blog who has become a Hindu. Think, what opinion she will get about Hindus after reading your post.
Dude go defend the country if you have the balls to do so instead of questing a soldier who has served his country. And ask yourself this question have you considered the muslims as one of yours?? While you expect them to consider them one of us.
‘@Nail Truth:
I. as representing whole Hindu community,make it clear one point. We harmless to anyone, extend love to everyone, share our rich culture to the rest of the World, bear pain for some level, but the rest of the World should consider our goodness as goodness not as incapable. The day the rest of World feels being good to others is our incapability, we also know how to resist and retaliate in same manner.
Look back your ancestors and your race that is strongly linked with this country. Whether you like it or not, you accept it or not, you are a Hindu, You may only change your name and worship style but not all the customs. I still see more Indian born Muslims and Christians follow Hindu rituals than that are mentioned in other religion holy books. You cannot sail in two boats at the same time, it is dangerous to you buddy. Western women dare to walk on streets with bikini clothes, would anybody in your family can do this? (as you are so proud of your new Christian religion, the religion which gave you lot of love and freedom). You can’t, because our race is not like that, changing name and wearing religion clothes and going respective holy shrine is not changing religion. Those are for outer World, but what is in your blood is your inner stuff.
Do you know the the greatness of Hinduism? Anybody can mingle in this way of life (so called Hinduism), once mingled they can enjoy the freedom and fruit of outcome in it. We don’t invite anybody into ours, we don’t force anybody into ours, we don’t lure anybody in the way of money, food, cloth, education, force, love and affection into ours, we don’t have any such history too, but yes, those who are following Sanatana Dharma are naturally become tolerant, lovable, sharable people.
I don’t want to explain all these to non-believers like you and some of the people commenting in this blog, but any Westerns who reading this blog, should not, by mistake think bad on this country. The country which gave great contribution in several aspects to the rest of the World.
Hope Ms. Maria would also accept this.
‘@ Bansal I appreciate your learned thoughts. I am a Christian by way!
‘@ Balaji
I am happy with the tone of your post and this will definitely show what you believe in a better perspective.
One request. You have brought in the word bikini in your post connecting with Christianity. You need to know more about the Christianity. If you don’t have any apprehension, like Maria learnt about Hinduism when she was still a Christian, you can try to find out more on Christianity. Some of my relatives are Hindus and they don’t have any problem in mixing with us and we don’t hurt their feelings. We don’t eat beef, we don’t drink. Many feel all Christians are on the same boat. Not true. Some in this blog said “Hindus in India is a heterogeneous group consisting of too many faiths – Sanatan, Shaiv, Vaishnav, Dravidian, Jains, Budhism and within each group the so called casts or varnas so andd so forth”. Same thing applies to Christians also. Some are ritualistic some are emotional and some are enlightened. Talk to someone enlightened to know more about Christians or read ‘the book’.
Maria, you need to be aware of the following facts:
(a) There has been internecine conflict among different Hindu sects, sometimes violent. The recrudescence of Brahminism under Adi Shankara was followed by some attacks on Buddhist Viharas. The Bhakti Movement encompasses several streams of reform in Hinduism including Vaishnavite cults. The founder of Srivaishnavism, Sri Ramanuja, set out in the 11th century to move towards caste equality and was at loggerheads with the then dominant smartha brahmin hierarchy who accepted Shankara’s interpretation. Kulothunga Chola , ruler then in Tamilnadu, was a fanatical Shaivaite and summoned Ramanuja to his court to demand his obeisance to Shiva. (Srivaishnavites do not worship shiva or Parvathi or any of their kin). Koorathalwar, a follower of ramanuja got wind of this, persuaded Ramanuja to exit the kingdom, and he, koorathalwar assumed the identity of Ramanuja and appeared before Kulothunga. The king came to know of the real identity and blinded Koorathalwar. ramanuja moved to Melkote in Karnataka and remained there for 12 years. So, there are some examples of Hindu rulers who have persecuted reformers.
(b) Manusmriti is one text which is unredeemed by anything enlightened and prescribes cruel penalties for violating caste prohibitions. There is much to be proud of in Hinduism, particularly in the Bhakti cults as also in the composite culture of Kabir, for example. One of Kabir’s dohas ha sthe most succinct exposition of Hindu ideas. But one does not have to be proud of manusmriti and so on.
(c) Maria, we dont have to be told that western secularism is not a model. We know that only too well.Our secularism is based on many roots in our own history,. Ashoka’s rock edict (I think no. 13, but I am not sure) forbade any hostile comments on any other person’s religion.Two housand three hundred years ago. This was at a time , when your teutonic ancestors were running around in forests and even now when you people get a day off, you vanish into the trees! Again, there have been several reform and radical movements in Hinduism. Jainism was probably the first to raise the banner of revolt against Brahminism, over 3000 years ago. Buddhism is probably the wisest religion to come out of India. Various streams of the Bhakti movement were not unlike the protestant reformation in Europe. Some bloggers have attacked Akbar. Akbar began , it is true, as a warlike ruler, but he did transform into an enlightened eclectic leader later. Maria, well before Europe, Akbar set up the Ibadat Khana in fatehpur Sikhri, which was a platform for debates among various religions. Jains, Zoroastrians, and many Hindu sects were represented in a first such venture in the world. Akbar changed even more later, adopting vegetarianism for much of the year. True, his own Din-i-ilahi religion had elements of opportunism, but it is likely that he ceased to be a muslim at the end. Ramanuja’s followers would have been admitted to his Ibadat Khana , even while they were thrown out by Kulothunga , the Shaivaite. Lingayats in Karnataka are also believed to have destroyed some vishnu temples , motivated by militant shaivism. Maybe, none of this comes anywhere near the destructiveness of Islamic or Christian militancy, but its existence is undeniable and should be disowned or opposed by all right-thinking people.Khatris, Kashmiri Pandits and Kayasths, upper-caste Hindus in the North have always belonged to the composite culture and it was common for them to visit shrines of muslim peers along with Hindu temples. And our modern secularism is based on our national movement for freedom. We resisted the British intrigues though we finally surrendered to partition. But the two-nation theory has not worked. Pakistan is in dire straits from inception. The British rascals pressed us to compromise, “even without giving up your principles”, but finally , without so much as a by your leave, inserted into the India Independence act, the words, “as there are two nations of Hindus and Muslims in India”. We had never agreed to this proposition and Gandhiji alone promptly protested against this wording.
Another excellent article Maria. I seriously dont know why speaking up about being hindu or having hindu beliefs is termed communal and doing the same by other communities as secular. With the BJP coming to power I hope they take this up and also make sure that we an inclusive society and can “let go” whats done in past and look for a bright future for the country and also to Hinduism – the way of life.
Thank you,
Shourie
re shourie
No-one is communal just because he speaks of Hinduism. Rajaji had lifelong interest in Hinduism, even translated into english, the Ramayana and the Mahabharatha, yet no-one calls him communal. If someone demands a Hindu Rashtra, he is communal. Of course, it is legitimatr, even neccessary to demand that there be no appeasement of anybody. it is also legitimate to question the absolute status given by the courts to articles 28 and 30 of the constitution,.
‘@ V V Anand
Maria is very much aware of facts (Hinduisms & Indian history) and not your fiction.
Your enthusiasm for Akbar worshipping is amazing, but not surprising. Seems another gullible Hindu become a victim of secular stage-managed Indian history.
Your assertion “North have always belonged to the composite culture and it was common for them to visit shrines of Muslim peers along with Hindu temples.”
Your perception of secularism is parallel to congress and Indian left brigade.
Have you ever questioned whether Muslims ever visit any Hindu shrine to be secular or otherwise?
there has been indeed a practice in Assam at some hindu shrines and muslim peer shrines located nearby for both to be visited by hindus as well as muslims. Let us build on that history of harmony
The irony is that in India, vested interests, particularly the politicians, mix up ‘Secularism’ with ‘Communalism’.Being Communal should not necessarily mean ‘Anti Secular’. Beauty is that when Hindu talks about his religion – Hindu, he is immediately branded ‘Anti Secular’. And reverse is not true i.e. when Muslim speaks against Hinduism, no one dares to call them ‘Anti Secular’. Every one knows history and we need not repeat the same again and again. The country should adopt the correct meaning of “Secularism”. That is practice your won religion the way one likes it but do not hate other religions. And second the Government must remain uninfluenced by any particular religion or religious group. Any and all policies and decisions of the Government should be meant for every citizen of the country. And if this means stopping pampering and appeasement of Muslims, lt it be.
Dear friend,
We have been deceived, we all Indians have been divided on purpose. First you should keep in mind, whatever came from Vedas, is flawless, as vedas are divine revelation by divine seers. If you find any description, that means that book has been poisoned, throw it.
When you talk about manusamrtii with flaws, then dear Friend that is the one fake one in circulation, indeed the original one is not accessible easily. i put a link last month from Capt vadakayils blog, please read it and make yourself proud you belong to Hindu only neutral philosophy on earth. Take one month of you time and read this person and about hinduism from Scientific, cosmic and spiritual purpose, if you are really unbiased,you will be a totally changed person. My life have changed, I am not same person. Click Control and find with my user name and you can read my previous post, you will find various links. i will put again 2 of them, 1st one is about Manusamriti.
http://ajitvadakayil.blogspot.com/2011/01/manu-first-law-maker-capt-ajit.html
http://ajitvadakayil.blogspot.com/2011/07/untouchables-capt-ajit-vadakayil.html
If you go through these links, you will understand each and every word what Maria is saying in this article. lets unite again.
Yes, let us unite and let all indians unite, of all religions and sects. But we cannot unite around Manusmriti and its dogmatic gender-biased claptrap. I wholeheartedly agree that there should be no pampering of any minorities and so on. Unfortunately, Article 30 of the constitution was incorporated by no less a person than Sardar Patelj who was the Chairman of the Subcommittee on Minorities of the Constituent Assembly. Article 30 has been interpreted by the courts to be absolute and to confer total autonomy from all rules of governance to minority institutions. we have to find a way to deal with it.Opening govt schools in minority areas and such steps are ok since there is evidence of social backwardness there.You must know that Manusmrit did not remain the last word on many aspects of Hindu law. Manusmriti is dated roughly 1st century ad and around the same time or a little later , Yagnavalkya wrote a Smriti codifying law on similar but different lines. In the 10th century AD, in the Chalukya kingdom in Badami in Karnataka, Vigyaneshvara wrote the Mitakshara which purported to be a summary of previous Hindu law including Manusmriti and yagnavalkyasmriti. But, Vigyaneshvara made many departures, notably in respect of succession and ownership of property. He secularised it. Manu and others had prescribed various religious duties on the sons as a condition for sharing and inheritance. Vigyaneshvara dropped all that and the rights came simply from birth. Mitakshara came from the south a thousand years ago and it spread like wildfire and was adopted by most of the north. The rival system of Dayabhaga is still prevalent in Eastern India and that continues with some religious prescriptions. True, Vigyaneshvara did not set right the gender biases. but it was a great leap for his time. The next serious step was Hindu Succession Act of 1956. The Bhratiya Jan Sangh and the Hindu Mahasabha vehemently resisted any provision for divorce and ultimately, it was watered down.The Act of 1956 was also unjust to daughters, and it is a wonder that it was not challenged as violating Article 14 on equality. The final rectification was the Hindu Succession (Amendment ) Act of 2005, which gives gender equality all the way. This time round, even BJP did not oppose it. Let us be proud of the way Hinduism has evolved. The Jains, the Buddhists, Ramanuja and the Iyengars, and numerous others were all progressive and ropposed Brahminism and moved towards caste equality. In fact, communities like the Kashmiri Pandits, Kayasthas, Khatris, Iyengars, Lingayats were comparatively free from retrograde practices like dowry and such. We need to take the evolution forward instead of remaining silent on abominable attitudes like that of Baba ramdev.. In Tamilnadu, in the early 70s, there was a practice of the thevars (an OBC community just a shade better off thn Dalits) simply entering a hut of a Dalit and committing violations . It is very likely that castes outside Tamilnadu also had some track record like this. Which is why comments like Baba Ramdev’s are hurtful.The sad thing is that Shyama Prasad Mookherjee and N C Chattewrji and others who argued powerfully against having any provision for divorce themselves had sisters and daughters and mothers. Of course, most of these men had received dowry.
I saw this line in the second site reference you have given
“No matter how much a woman says she is equal to man , she cannot be . ”
This is just not acceptable and even violates law
‘@ V V Anand
Grasp ur subject matter first then ask question. What inequality is not acceptable for you and why?
Male and female, are not equal because of biological differences. Nature has created differently for a purpose.
Nature and common sense, free from any contamination of ‘feel good political correctness’.
has established inequality of minds, characters and capacities.
Equality has multifaceted meaning and same rule can not be relevant in all circumstances.
State law, can only apply non discriminatory treatment, but cant make two genders or various racws equal.
Start thinking out of the box.
I think you did not read my post carefully, Manusamriti, which you are referring to is fake one, Original one tells a higher level of punishment for a Brahmin and does not categorize one by birth right. you google it ,you will find the answer, first read the right version, then discuss, there is one website from Agniveer, they have explained in detail whyat original Manusamrit says.
Now regarding women, equality, i m myself a woman and personally feel what my husband is worth, I am not, that does not mean I am inferior, Woman has her own qualities, yes when it comes to being human they both should get equal rights, but women should always see her man as protector and provider of home, woman needs to be polite, humble and full of vitue as she is who will give birth to new human, so she should not start acting like man, both gender are to serve their own purpose, i believe in sati savitri image of hindustani nari as that is the only way you can produce healthy calm and peaceful creature. having said so, do not think I m typical behnji type dehati lady, I am a scientist/doctorate and live in america and have american lady friends with the same mind set. Many Women in India are living in post feminism state, they have lost respect for men.
I would request you to go through Capt blogs again, and you don’t need to agree with all what he is saying, i don’t, but i can bet, he is the most perceptive, knowledgable man on earth, not even a single modern human can come close to him. read the comment section how his readers tells their story of getting changed forever. it took me 6 months to actually comprehend what he is saying. And by the way from your surname Anand, if you are from north India, then i share your background and i know how we so much believe in Arya samaj, but actually we know partial truth.
Jai hind.
great to hear there are good christians who actually don’t have a problem with others faith and i appreciate that,but friend i have seen more pro christians abusing hindus both internet and outside india with religious steriotypes and i don’t mean other steriotypes such as racial ones but religeous steriotypes to be very specific.I wish all christians were as accepting as you were,but you cannot deny the persecution commited on hindus out side india specifically on christian countries.For instance some time ago i read on the internet that Indians are most hated in Germans.
You cannot be more correct than this.This leftist utopian will never be a reality,it is only going to remain a dream and is full of empty promises.If it were to be true it would have succeeded through out the world.No matter how much we try,man cannot defeat nature.Every time man fights nature,nature always wins.Utopia cannot ever be a reality due to inner selfishness of human beings.No matter how much we try people will always want more for themselves and refuse to share.Hence achieving equality at every thing for every one sadly is far far away from reality and can only be at best be a dream.Like agni correctly said think out of the box and don’t fall for such propaganda that promises you everything,and in the end gives you absolutly nothing but poverty and misery.
God Bless You…
Bharat mata ki jai!
this is a reply not only to prakriti but also to agni and sacred saffron . Why are you harping on Manusmriti when there has in fact been further evolution and Vigyaneshwara in Karnataka in the 10th century had already amended many aspects in authoring Mitakshara ? The succession law has been completely overhauled over time and the latest amendment in 2005 has brought gender equality in full. Sons and daughters now have equal shares in property and a daughter can also be a karta , which awaits a clear decided ruling in its favour from the courts. Do agni and sacred saffron oppose the 2005 amendment ? This is all that we mean by equality of gender. The dowry prohibition act of 1960, the anti-bride-burning legislation all await proper implementation as we can see from the khap panchayats and so on.
‘@ Nail Truth, If u consider a lie to be a truth whose mistake is this.u were talking abt Hinduisim. i will tell u abt a weird practice in west some 150 yrs before.If a xian wants to go to heaven he will have to go to the pope give him donation the pope will write a promisary note in which so & so amount has been received & will be written requesting god to allow this person to heaven & provide him with better facility, this note has to be buried with the person so that god will give special attention to him,this was the practice in Europe finally stopped in the reform process of ur Religion.u told u converted becse of caste discrimination r u now free from Discrimination, then what r those many groups in ur Religion who dont go to each others place of worship,pls dont blame the caste system in Hindm it is the best system but wrongly followed.Regarding african cities burning if u check it out thats b’cse ur people landed there & destroyed their culture, where ever there is Resource (Gold, silver, Iron, Oil,Diamond) those place will always burn b’cse those place r all controlled by ur Religion people.I pity our Grandchildrens & prey to God that they be Hindus so that they dont face the same Fate as that of Natives of America,Aborginals of Australia & Moaris of Newzeland whom some were converted & made to fight with each other destroying themselves.
As Vivekanada said
our Religion is based upon Principles & not persons.The Base of Hinduism is based upon Eternal Principles. Eternal principles apply to all human beings everywhere. The laws of physics exist and work all the time. The healing principle will get to work immediately the moment a little cut is sustained on a finger. No one can tell when this healing principle began or when it will end. It is there existing eternally, all pervading (available everywhere), omniscient (aware all the time and therefore healing principle gets to work when injury is sustained). (These simplified examples serve to understand God’s power: omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent).
And this ought also to be observed that except our religion (Sanatan Dharma; Hinduism), every other religion in the world depends upon the lives of some personal founder or founders. Christianity is built upon the life of Jesus Christ, Mohammedanism (Islam) upon Mohammed, Buddhism upon Buddha, Jainism upon the Jinas, and so on. It naturally follows that there must be in all these religions a good deal of fight about what they call the historical evidences of these great personalities.
If at any time the historical evidences about the existence of these personages in ancient times become weak, the whole building of the religion tumbles down and is broken to pieces. We escaped this fate because our religion is not based upon persons but on principles. That you obey your religion is not because it came through the authority of a sage, no, not even of an Incarnation. Krishna is not the authority of the Vedas, but the Vedas are the authority of Krishna himself. His glory is that he is the greatest preacher of the Vedas that ever existed.
‘@ Ajay:
Ajay well explained. What the matter is that your valuable water like thoughts are falling into the drainage area like deaf ears. Yes, you can wake up a person who is really sleeping but not the one is adamantly blocking eyes with cloth and pretending as sleeping. All Indian converted Christians and Muslims are as same as the above example. However, your thoughts have enriched the people like me in a more perspective way towards Sanatana Dharma. Keep posting Bro!
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Very well said Maria. India needs more foreign authors who can write about the plight of Hindus in their own country and the damage British and Mughal have done to us. If any Indian writes this,he will be branded communal immediately by the Indian Media like Burqa Dutt, Rajdeep, Sagarika, Arnab Goswami.
Please help us.
Sid,
why are you worried if you are branded as communal when you know you are not? Please stand up to those so called seculars. They don’t have arguments and will resort to shouting. My neighbour, a communist with a Brahmin name, calls me RSS pracharak. Never mind….
An eye opener – great knowledge and thorough analyses. Wish your article reaches the political class of India and has some impact on them, who go to any extent in denegrading their own religion, hinduism and dividing the Hindus for their smallest political gains. Let us hope Prime Minister Modi may take some cues on secular and communal nomenclature and provide the lost honour for Hinduism among the Hindus and provide some justice to the community by thus uniting them.
Jai Hindu.
Garv se kaho hum Hindu hain.
With Pride shall we say, we are hindus, among the most logical, researched and tollerant religion (community).
Wow…at last a modern day writer from west has understood how Indians have been foolish for centuries and how they are degrading themselves in the name of secularism when everyone else is opportunistic. Not a single Indian media personality will write this truth because they are being secular and do not want to hurt the sentiments of converted Christians and Muslims. Fantastically written.
Waw! Maria explained in simple words the most complicated topic in India. Long back, during my college days I read ” To know India we have to go foreign”. Maria proved. It is time for Hindus take cue from the author and try to regain our glory
Maria Thanks for your blog. Enjoyed reading it . In a lighter vein it was rumored that Hitler asked his intelligent folks to rummage indian scriptures and got many ideas including the nuclear bomb from these . Gurukul education of a few years in the past was enough for a man to earn his livelihood . Now he has no skills after wasting his youth . In the past not much mention of poverty .a rare few but there were reasons assigned to them ( sudama. harishchandra etc ). sickness was never life threatening but due to age- body’s limitation . One good thing hope it survives though it is being attacked by materialism. Honesty ,work, respect and compassion for people . It was good to hear from President of USA asking US citizens to serve the community & seva hopefully is still in the genes of Indians. PM Modi simplified this for children, if you stop wasting or saving resources you are serving the nation . Sanskars are equally necessary . Pray that this generation puts derailed India on track. we need more people like you who can cut through stones in a gentle manner . Thank You once again maria. God Bless You
Very nice comment, for a very nice article. In fact all the articles of Ms Maria Wirth are an eye opener and thought provoking even for most of the Hindus who read them.
Manoj Ahuja
it is quite appropriate that you should mention Hitler, Obama and Modi together. Obama is a stooge of the military-industrial complex that has first created islamic militancy through saudi arabia and then uses it as a pretext to bomb and destroy countries which allow non-western countries access to their oil. Modi’s sweet words to children are entirely hypocritical, as there are serious accusations against him , presently under consideration of Gujarat High Court.
Mr. Krupakaran, Pl. behave like matured! First of all, this blog is not meant for discussing about Mr. Modi or Mr. Obama.
Even your comments about case against Mr. Modi, what is there in suing against anybody? I can, you can also file on anybody. What matters is the verdict from the Court. Wait until that then comment on appropriate blog!
[…] by Maria Wirth I was asked to shorten my article “Indian Secularism is not secular”. I also updated it, but several paragraphs are from the original article http://mariawirthblog.wordpress.com/2014/05/02/indian-secularism-is-not-secular/ […]
Very well-written and insightful write-up. You have so beautifully described what has been forgotten by the very own people of this country. Thanks you!
A very fine summery about Hinduism and Secularism. The alien religion based rulers who ruled India for centuries before independence and thereafter by rulers who just followed the foot steps of foreign rulers in Indian fashion have converted the Indian brain into clay. There are very few to understand the real meaning of Secularism. Only hope is on Modi now. Let us see.
Great Article. One must also read Dr. Elst – another friend of Hindus. He too is great.
Beautifully analyzed… you have hit the nail on the head Maria
The average Indian-Hindu has today the least awareness of his heritage and the real values of Sanatana Dharma. False values of Materialism have taken possession of his ego and intelligence making him suffer in the lowest self-esteem. He has degenerated to the level of brazenly destroying his own identity of Self!
Very well said! In the last one and a half years I have won every argument with the “liberal/secular’ brigade. Their problem is- they are so convinced of the infallibility of their position that they have forgotten putting together a decent argument, taking a fact based position and being in touch with the global socio-political milieu.
@Sid- The road less ravelled is never easy. Mind you, you may get branded a ‘communal’, even lose some warmth in friendships and endure other hardships! As Gandhi said, “First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.”!
Consider the irony- if we say with pride that we are Hindus, we are dubbed supremacists!!
Enjoyable reading. Kudos Maria. For long it is known that two religions i.e Christianity and Islam are dogmatic and grow, one by proselytization and the other by proliferation, only to keep edge over the other. Crusades of middle ages are empirical indicators to this mindset. Hinduism was never a religion than a amazingly organised way of leading social and professional life in a bygone era of Indus valley civilisation much before the advent of term “nation state”.
The word Secularism was coined by Jacob Holyoake in 1851 in an attempt to define the social order as distinct from religious order of the milieu existing then. There was exactly no need of such bifurcation in olden India based on Dharma and Vedas. And now in India this very word ” secularism ” has lost its meaning. What Indians follow is “sham-secularism” or at best “pseudo- secularism”. This whole Indian irony can perhaps be best described by an Indian proverb ” Kauwa chala Hans ki chaal,
Apni chaal bhi bhool gaya” , roughly meaning….Imitations may be misleading at times.
A religion has one founder, one book set down at a fixed time, divides people into believers and non believers (eg Kafir or Pagan). Fundamentalist are people who follow THE book literally taking it and no other as THE word of God. Hindus or Aryans have no founder, no book, do not divide people into believers and non believers, have been around since man began to think some 10000+ years ago. They gave rise to Math and language, Zero a concept of non existence is at the heart of Hindu Dharma. Sanskrit and Math have their roots in Hindu Dharma. Hindus practice Dharma for which there is no word in english. Hindus have hundreds of Gods and as many books and each individual is FREE to follow his conscience. Hindus instead perch Karma, that is, each persons action or act in life creates consequences, immediately, tomorrow, next year or next birth. Actions with good consequences where logically laid out such as LOVE PEACE FORGIVENESS CHARITY HUMILITY EGO SELFISHNESS BRAVERY FEARLESSNESS TRUTH KNOWLEDGE OF SCRIPTURES etc Hindus are true to such pagan beliefs of both ancient Roman and Greece. Hence is the oldest civilization known to man.
Your understanding of India’s cultural ethos before Islam and Christianity seems fair enough. But, the present scenario gets your goat and you want to become Hindus as communal, militant and proselyting as Muslims and others. Why??
Will that make India more prosperous, Indians more humane and enlightened? No probably not. Your wish is see more Hindus displaced form lofty heights of Dharma and fall ito the communal trap. The connotation of word communal in Germany and India are bound to be different. To us a secular state is equidistant from all religions, with prejudice for and against none.
i am glad you can see that Muslims and Christians are “communal, militant and proselytizing”. No, i certainly don’t want Hindus to become like that. i just want them to see the truth and not to appease those whose objective is to make Hinduism disappear from this earth. Appeasement is dangerous as it increases the clout of those inimical to India.
Maybe you know Swami Vivekananda’s claim:
“Every Hindu who leaves the Hindu pale is not only one Hindu less but also one enemy more.”
if he said this today, he would be considered communal, wouldn’t he? It means Hindus got something wrong and don’t want to see the truth.
Vivekananda’s assertion about one Hindu less and one enemy more is absurd and mocks both Dharma and Gita. Lord Krishna says in the Gita, ‘Yo mam sarvatra and sarvam che mayee pashyati, tasya aham na pranashyami sa mey na pranashyari.’
Kaindly wait for its paraphrases. I leave to join my wife at lunch table.
The sloka quoted above contains Lord Krishna’s assertion, unequivocal assertion, that one who sees Him everywhere and in everyone upholds Lord’s Glory and enjoys His protection. Elsewhere, the Gita declares, ‘ Vidya vinay sampanney brahimini gavi hastini shuni ch shwapakey ch panditeh sum darshineh’. Wise people treat as equal learned and polite Brahmins, cow, elephant, lowly person, and dog. Did not Vivekananda err in the example cited by you?
Now to Dharma, its ten attributes are, namely, devotion, forgiveness, self restraint, non acquisitiveness, cleanliness, sense control, reason, learning, truthfulness and absence of anger. Nowhere is it said that such a code of conduct is Hinduism’s monoply or its trademark. It is a value system to which every soul has a right to tend, whether as a Hindu or a non Hindu.
I shall be grateful if you could tabulate more lucidly your expectations of us unprovoked Hindus?
Sri Jitendra Kaushal
At the outset, let me thank you on behalf of Ms. Maria, for your time before and after lunch for your extended views and in depth introspection of her writing.
True and I am with you about the views you expressed. Tell me, do we need to be too aggressive towards non Hindus (as you felt or understood from her writing)? Let me also say this that, being a dog, if dog does not bark at least, forget about biting, who will keep it for vigilance for one’s house? Don’t we need to be careful, at least, to protect from being insulted or defamed? We need not to be ‘too aggressive’ but ‘too alert’ at least. Don’t you agree at least this? Where is the matter of provoking Hindus come here?
As this Sloka goes,
“Aakashat patitam toyam, yadha gachhati saagaram, sarva deva namaskara: Keshavam prati gachhati”
which means, ‘just as every rain drop that falls from the sky flows into the Ocean, in the same way every prayer offered to any Deity flows to Kesava the Lord. Let others (non Hindus) pray any God, we don’t mind nor we are going to prevent. All we think is that those prayers also ultimately reach to the supreme power, the ‘Kesava’.
We can always adjust but we can’t bear all the time, is the bottom line.
Though I agree with Kaushal ‘s views we need to learn that others only believe in killing or converting who do not believe their views. The freedom of thought that exists in Hinduism is absent in Abrahamic religions. Therefore a clear distinction needs to be made and understood
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Sir, my reference book is Bhagwadgita. Therein Lord Krishna equates ‘yoga’ with equanimity and to that end He exhorts a man of reason ( budhi yukto ) to rise above deeds well or ill done and strive for equanimity which is key to proficiency at work.
How can a people blessed with equanimity and master of their professions be at a risk from less gifted scatter brains? Must we stoop to their moral and spiritual level in a show bravado? Abandoning Dharma we wish to seek worldly success by Adharma?
Substracting from our faith in a benign God we can not become more powerful slayers of the evil, can we?
True and well spoken Sri Jitendra Kaushal. I accept your views.
All I want to say is, even ‘touch me not’ plant responds to someone by shrinking and closing its leaves when it is touched. Don’t we have that much responding power? Are we Hindus downgraded to beyond that level? Don’t we have that minimal reciprocation? Will it be still called as aggression?
Sarvam Krushnaarpanam!
True – the essence of everyone is the same. But why did Sri Krishna prod Arjuna to kill his kin? Even Duryodhana will reach the heaven for kshatriyas, (If i remember right, Krishna himself assured) but the fruit of his adharmic, unjust conduct had to reach him.
as i grew up as a Christian, i know, but can’t accept that according to the Christian doctrine Hindus (and other non-Christians), never mind how good and dharmic they live, will burn eternally in hell. Most Europeans don’t believe this anymore (except those who get their livelihood from the Church..), but in India many Christians have been brainwashed badly to “safeguard” them from the Hindus and are very rigid.
I asked in Germany some 40 person whether they believe that Hndus go to hell. nobody said yes. But when i asked 2 Indian Christians (one an IIT prof) they said “yes”. He had convinced already his parents to convert, but not his siblings.
in religions where blind belief in unverifiable dogmas is demanded, the mind is being straight jacketed. Hindu Dharma is greatly preferable.
Krupakaran is the example of the mindset that prevails in indian seculars
They love to portray him as a demon. This is also what the missionaries and foreign funded NGOs have been slyly promoting. The SC monitored SIT declaring him not guilty be damned. Twelve years of indian main stream media has been relentlessly pursuing him and they have nothing to show in the form of credible evidence
Yet this mindset goes on. Modi’s main flaw has been to tighten the illegal missionary activities.Thats why this biased views appear.
Here we are talking of principles of life and these pseudo seculars bring in their minds full of unjust and unfair views
You are an earnest seeker and are bound to have your soul shed all its senses generated drag and regain its pristine glory to attain Moksh.
Gayatri Mantra, the most famous hymn from the Vedas is very illuminating about the main thrust of Hindu metaphysics. Om is uttered to focus on the Cosmic Reality, Braham. Then, noble god Sun’s power to illumine the earth, the outer space and the heaven is paid obeisance to. And finally an invocation is made in first person, plural, for sharpening of one’s mental processes after Sun’s inner fires.
Clearly, it is a man’s communion with with his maker for a prayer for enlightenment. Interestingly, the prayer is in first person plural. A Hindu never prays for his or her individual benefit alone.
Dear Kaushal
To answer your question as to why Krishna asked Arjuna to kill.
Please look at the situation,there are two armies facing each other as a result of failure of non fulfilment of conditions and further negotiations.The war is about to begin and the one of the Generals say he would not fight as his relations will get killed. Krishna told him to do his duty (killing was part of his duty).Imagine if it happens in Pak India war , if one of the indian Generals say he won’t fight for the same reasons of Arjuna (let me assure you it has never happened),then will you not advise him to fight (it will involve killing ,wouldn’t it)
As you seem to be well versed in Geeta you know Krishna taught yoga to do ones duty with equanimity and then ones actions will not bind a man but liberate him. Which is the aim of life
Dear Manohar Sharma
Krishna told Arjun that ever moving wheel of time has brought together huge forces on the battle field to send many of them to death, irrespective of the fact whether Arjun and his soldiers kill them or not.
Also, Arjun was a Kshatriya, of the warrior clan, and to do battle in the discharge of his kingly duty was his ‘swadharma’, which he could escape only at the peril of being branded a coward and invite ridicule and ignominy.
After a two hour long dialogue with Krishna his friend and mentor, Arjun heeds his advice and goes to war with Kauravas, a situation that was not of his or his friend’s making. It was a hand forced on him by destiny and he chose to play it with all the finesse at his command.
With 700 slokas, The Gita, is a small part of the 1 lakh slokas long the Epic Mahabharata.
This dialogue is set in war like surrounding because its main thrust is on ‘nishkam karma’. Poet Vyas could have easily placed it in some Himalayan cave, but that would have been far less effective and would have been reduced to routine philosophical argument.
Good wishes,
Jitendra Kaushal
My answer was only to your pointed question “why did Krishna ask Arjuna to kill ” If as per you it was wheel of time that brought the situation then Krishna and Arjuna were also part of same wheel of time and doing their duties
Hinduism is the only religion which doesn’t spend money on conversions n also won’t force people to get converted..in India people hve freedom to practice any religion and worship any god, this is the beauty of hindutva.. v love people n peace but hatredness is being created by some terror groups in the name of religion.. v hve got lot of things to invent, explore n move forward with science rather than converting n forcing people to live in darkness…
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Too good! Even if the west does discover anything first, they will not be able to use the treatises properly as they are entwined with our philosophy, which goes against all the beliefs they are brought up with.
Terror in the Name of Christ in North east India
http://blogs.swarajyamag.com/2015/01/07/terror-in-the-name-of-christ-in-northeast/
all true india
Thailand is the only Hindu based culture which was never invaded by both Islam and Christians. So called secular India has a lot to learn from it
What a brilliant blog by Ms.MARIA WIRTH.Thank u Ms.Maria !
Every “Indians” should read. The idiotic secular Indians especially Hindu “secularists” should fall in shame to support their killers.
Wonderful….
Pl let us not glorify scums like Arnab,Barkha and others as though they are learned. They’re simple employees fronting for their masters
It is becoming increasingly fashionable for these media pathogens to gossip during prime times engaging mostly the political parasites in a high decibal chaos of meaningless debates! The audience too waste their time listening to the useless rants of these good for nothing passtimes!
Is Indian Constitution really secular?
The best answer I read about this is : Read a blog article by Maria Wirth ” Indian secularism is not secular” https://mariawirthblog.wordpress.com/2014/05/02/indian-secularism-is-not-secular/ also An article by Tufail ahmed http://indiafacts.org/indi…
Is India really a secular state?
Read Maria wirth’s blog “Indian secularism is Not secular’ https://mariawirthblog.wordpress.com/2014/05/02/indian-secularism-is-not-secular/ Also Read Tufail Ahmed’s piece about it saying Indian secularism is Half Pakistani, Half Islamic, and Not e…
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Dear Maria,
A great article indeed! By reading such posts I get awed by the foresight of our ancestors. They had the ability to even predict the false that is advocated by the masses will be considered the truth in Kali Yuga. However as a firm believer in the principles of this religion, I feel assured that this ”Hinduism”(originally Sanatana Dharma) will survive all dangers. It has no beginning and no end. As true followers, it is enough if people resist conversion and take more faith in who they are by nature (swabhava).
The writer having intensive and Pratical knowledge of India and Indian History Calture and Religion, We salute her for her efforts. She is true Ambassador of India to the world. May God bless her good health and long life.
thank you
Seems many people in India have yet to understand secularism, while some of them take pride in being able to export this vague and mysterious concept to countries like Nepal. The official India should examine whether Secularism is an exportable item……
Well said msg which can make even an illiterate understand the meaning & context of word “Secular”
sad to say, But a German (you) have a better understanding of India’s situation and nature of Indic religions than 80% of India’s English speaking intellectuals.
I hope this 8000 years old civilization will get through this tough time too, as it has in the past.
Best Wishes to you.
What clarity in recognition of truth and real issues. Excellent piece of writing. The sickulars must wake up for truly secular Hinduism is no more a defencive and coy stuff. Its out to show truth with pride and without hesitation.
I feel madam maria is a godsend for our civilisation.at least some will see the truth.pity is many knoledgeble in gita quote it out of context and arrive at wrong deduction to suit their tamasic inclination.eat ,sleep,make merry.dont resist evil even if it threatens you and your generations.lord repeatedly stresses karma even for yogis.if you are a self styled yogi,do nishkamya(nishcommunal)karma.but karma(duty)should be done.dont run away from duty by misquoting gita.doing this you are misleading the rightious which is a sin.
But look close, you will find Hinduism under present pro Hindu govt is paying back what Christians and Muslims had done to Hindus in the past. It is not at all a rule with the wisdom and light of the great rishis.
This article is fantastic.
Please feel free to share it
Thank you for appreciating it
No words to comment on your eye opener! Never you find such indepth analysis of a Topic that is buzzed around. Was shocked with the gap between the apparent and real meaning of ‘Secular’.
Namaste.!!
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